Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 9:40:45 GMT -6
How about loving them and accepting them as your brothers and providing sanctuary so they may also have the opportunity to escape violence, hate, and inability to grow in service. It must be wonderful living in your fantasy world.
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Post by tindalus on Dec 8, 2015 13:05:31 GMT -6
Sort of like the fantasy that hate and violence solves all problems?
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Post by lowell on Dec 9, 2015 1:24:14 GMT -6
If we do not admit them, how many of them will die? We argued against admitting Jewish refugees from Germany at the time that Germany was rounding up Jews. We used the argument that some might me spies. Don't forget, there have been advances in weapons designs. How many will die? Make that: How many innocent people would die? And, I don't know, but perhaps a solution would be to designate a patch of ground (a la Israel) and take them there. We can kill them all if we kill the guilty ones; from a buddhist point of view. Everyone comes into this life with a bit of bad karma. You would not presume to be innocent would you Carpathianpeasant? Nothing bad has ever happened to you? You have never ever done one wrong thing? Buddhism says that if you cut a single blade of grass, you have made the cause to fall into hell (well techinically there are 8 major hot hells, and 8 major cold hells, each being composed of 16 subsidiary hells, and the worst hot hell is where the most suffering happens). So the least painful cold hell would probably be where people go when they step on a bug or cut their lawn. If we are going to kill guilty people we will be busy here at home with our people.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 5:56:57 GMT -6
If you get sent to hell for hurting a blade of grass how is one suppose to feed himself?
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Post by lowell on Dec 9, 2015 7:33:07 GMT -6
In some worlds people are born by transformation and they feed on the fruit of jeweled trees.
This is called the Saha world. Saha means suffering. The Bible scholars agree that even Jesus has to spend some time in hell after he died. It would be a short time in a minor hell. However if a person does major goods, the minor evils of killing animals and plants is erased just as one large rainstorm puts out many small fires. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is such a major good. The Mystic Law has incomprehensible power and benefit. Other worlds are described in this way. "The living beings of that land will all be divorced from lewd desires. They will be born in a pure manner by the process of transformation, with all the features adorning their bodies. With Dharma joy and meditation delight to feed upon, they will have no thought of other food. There will be no women there, and none of the evil paths of existence.
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Post by rdlb on Dec 9, 2015 21:46:38 GMT -6
How about loving them and accepting them as your brothers and providing sanctuary so they may also have the opportunity to escape violence, hate, and inability to grow in service. I see that as idealistic and not realistic. So, 10,000 X 21.8 percent = 2180 men 18-59 years of age. A conservative guess of how many men might be radicals at 2% to 5%. 2180 X 22% to 5% = 44-109 individuals. We just witnessed what one man and one woman did and she was vetted. I believe in the two greatest commandments. Part of loving the neighbor is "as yourself". Matt 22:37-39. I would not put my neighbor in and danger nor myself and family. While I also would like to have any and all individuals to "have the opportunity to escape violence, hate, and inability to grow in service", I have reservations.
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Post by lowell on Dec 9, 2015 23:07:48 GMT -6
We are moving towards a safer tomorrow relatively quickly, car and truck accidents currently kill many people. People are put in danger on our highways. However, soon, cars and trucks will drive themselves and they will do that better than we can. This will save many lives and people will not be put in danger on our highways. Similarly, we will have robotic security systems that protect us, eliminating the need for personal firearms. These same robotic security devices will do regular maintenance and educate us. They will prepare our meals and clean our homes and clothing. People are and will be the weakest link in our safe future. It is incorrect to believe that humans are inferior to an imaginary God. It causes people to have incorrect estimations of the value of human life.
" Every being, from the highest sage on down to the smallest mosquito or gnat, holds life to be its most precious possession. To deprive a being of life is to commit the gravest kind of sin.
When the Thus Come One appeared in this world, he made compassion for living things his basis. And as an expression of compassion for life, to refrain from taking life and to provide sustenance for living beings are the most important precepts.
In providing another with sustenance, one obtains three kinds of benefit. First, one sustains one’s own life. Second, one brings color to one’s face. Third, one gains strength."
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Post by tindalus on Dec 10, 2015 9:59:00 GMT -6
How about loving them and accepting them as your brothers and providing sanctuary so they may also have the opportunity to escape violence, hate, and inability to grow in service. I see that as idealistic and not realistic. So, 10,000 X 21.8 percent = 2180 men 18-59 years of age. A conservative guess of how many men might be radicals at 2% to 5%. 2180 X 22% to 5% = 44-109 individuals. We just witnessed what one man and one woman did and she was vetted. I believe in the two greatest commandments. Part of loving the neighbor is "as yourself". Matt 22:37-39. I would not put my neighbor in and danger nor myself and family. While I also would like to have any and all individuals to "have the opportunity to escape violence, hate, and inability to grow in service", I have reservations. What isn't realistic about it? The issue is that there are millions trying to escape the violence and terrorism of the country they are from. By mistreating them as many republicans want to do, we are in effect throwing them back into that quagmire they are trying to escape. Eventually if they can't escape, they will become a part of that violence. Our caring about their well being may very well act as a helping hand to help them reach their potential and to escape that violence. I see nothing unrealistic in that view. What i do find unrealistic is that so many republicans think that going to war( which has never worked in the middle east) committing acts of bigotry, committing acts of discrimination, is going to help solve the issue of terrorism. All that is going to happen is that the republicans are surrendering to ISIS helping this to become a religious war instead of dealing with a very limited number of people who are threatening their countries (with a very minor threat to the US) with terrorism and doing everything they can to widen the conflict to being a war of religion. Apparently republicans also want this to be a war of religion. SAD is all I can say about this. This is why there will never be peace because neither side of these conflicts can break the cycle because they want the violence and the hate, and the wars. They have no more interested in peace then the terrorists.
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orogenicman
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Old enough to remember how to make stone tools
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Post by orogenicman on Dec 10, 2015 10:17:09 GMT -6
How about loving them and accepting them as your brothers and providing sanctuary so they may also have the opportunity to escape violence, hate, and inability to grow in service. I see that as idealistic and not realistic. So, 10,000 X 21.8 percent = 2180 men 18-59 years of age. A conservative guess of how many men might be radicals at 2% to 5%. 2180 X 22% to 5% = 44-109 individuals. We just witnessed what one man and one woman did and she was vetted. I believe in the two greatest commandments. Part of loving the neighbor is "as yourself". Matt 22:37-39. I would not put my neighbor in and danger nor myself and family. While I also would like to have any and all individuals to "have the opportunity to escape violence, hate, and inability to grow in service", I have reservations. Empathizing with one's fellow human being is never unrealistic. Ever.
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Post by carpathianpeasant on Dec 10, 2015 11:49:15 GMT -6
I see that as idealistic and not realistic. So, 10,000 X 21.8 percent = 2180 men 18-59 years of age. A conservative guess of how many men might be radicals at 2% to 5%. 2180 X 22% to 5% = 44-109 individuals. We just witnessed what one man and one woman did and she was vetted. I believe in the two greatest commandments. Part of loving the neighbor is "as yourself". Matt 22:37-39. I would not put my neighbor in and danger nor myself and family. While I also would like to have any and all individuals to "have the opportunity to escape violence, hate, and inability to grow in service", I have reservations. What isn't realistic about it? The issue is that there are millions trying to escape the violence and terrorism of the country they are from. By mistreating them as many republicans want to do, we are in effect throwing them back into that quagmire they are trying to escape. Eventually if they can't escape, they will become a part of that violence. Our caring about their well being may very well act as a helping hand to help them reach their potential and to escape that violence. I see nothing unrealistic in that view. What i do find unrealistic is that so many republicans think that going to war( which has never worked in the middle east) committing acts of bigotry, committing acts of discrimination, is going to help solve the issue of terrorism. All that is going to happen is that the republicans are surrendering to ISIS helping this to become a religious war instead of dealing with a very limited number of people who are threatening their countries (with a very minor threat to the US) with terrorism and doing everything they can to widen the conflict to being a war of religion. Apparently republicans also want this to be a war of religion. SAD is all I can say about this. This is why there will never be peace because neither side of these conflicts can break the cycle because they want the violence and the hate, and the wars. They have no more interested in peace then the terrorists. QUOTE: "Eventually if they can't escape, they will become a part of that violence." UNQUOTE Now that's a practical argument. And, one answer to it is that they have long been familiar with it and at least used to know how to live with it (as India generally does) whereas this is stuff that Americans do not begin to understand. Once again, there is a difference between refugees and economic migrants, and it seems pretty well determined that a hefty portion of the "refugees" are economic migrants.
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Post by tindalus on Dec 10, 2015 14:36:47 GMT -6
How can one call it economic when they are escaping a war being carried out in their nation and the surrounding nations. If it was just in their nation they could escape to the next country over. But this war going on in the middle east is encompassing many nations and spreading like wildfire.
Unfortunately this is what happens when a western nation interfers in the delicate balance of a power that existed in the middle east until we overthrew Saddam. A balance that we made....i.e. Bush.....no attempt to understand or even consider in the run up to the war. A Colossal error on our part. We have a responsibility to do our best to help those that are displaced because of our inept attempt to dictate affairs in the middle east.
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Post by carpathianpeasant on Dec 10, 2015 17:35:50 GMT -6
How can one call it economic when they are escaping a war being carried out in their nation and the surrounding nations. If it was just in their nation they could escape to the next country over. But this war going on in the middle east is encompassing many nations and spreading like wildfire. Unfortunately this is what happens when a western nation interfers in the delicate balance of a power that existed in the middle east until we overthrew Saddam. A balance that we made....i.e. Bush.....no attempt to understand or even consider in the run up to the war. A Colossal error on our part. We have a responsibility to do our best to help those that are displaced because of our inept attempt to dictate affairs in the middle east. As one person (somewhere) put it, there's no war in Morocco, so why are there "Syrian refugees" from Morocco? And, the migrants aren't just plain hiking from Greece to Sweden. There are loads of YouTube videos showing them on trains and buses. And, I'm not about to dig out the assorted news reports from weeks ago establishing that (as I said) a hefty portion of the "refugees" are economic migrants (as some have actually said while knowing it was to be a news report).
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Post by lowell on Dec 10, 2015 17:46:41 GMT -6
The CIA factbook (I solved a dispute with this same resource before when Carpathianpeasant disputed the destruction in Syria as being Russian propaganda) : "current situation: due to Syria’s political uprising and violent unrest, hundreds of thousands of Syrians, foreign migrant workers, and refugees have fled the country and are vulnerable to human trafficking; the lack of security and inaccessibility of the majority of the country makes it impossible to conduct a thorough analysis of the scope and magnitude of Syria’s human trafficking situation; Syria is a source and destination country for men, women, and children subjected to forced labor and sex trafficking; Syrian refugee women and girls are forced into exploitive marriages or prostitution in neighboring countries, while refugee children are forced into street begging domestically and abroad; the Syrian armed forces and opposition forces are using Syrian children in combat and support roles and as human shields."
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Post by lowell on Dec 10, 2015 17:56:07 GMT -6
More from the CIA factbook: "Economy - overview: Syria's economy continues to deteriorate amid the ongoing conflict that began in 2011. The economy further contracted in 2014 because of international sanctions, widespread infrastructure damage, diminished domestic consumption and production, reduced subsidies, and high inflation. The government has struggled to address the effects of economic decline, which include dwindling foreign exchange reserves, rising budget and trade deficits, and the decreasing value of the Syrian pound and household purchasing power. During 2014, the ongoing conflict and continued unrest and economic decline worsened the humanitarian crisis and elicited a greater need for international assistance, as the number of people in need inside Syria increased from 9.3 million to 12.2 million, and the number of Syrian refugees increased from 2.2 million to more than 3.3 million. Prior to the turmoil, Damascus began liberalizing economic policies, including cutting lending interest rates, opening private banks, consolidating multiple exchange rates, raising prices on some subsidized items, and establishing the Damascus Stock Exchange, but the economy remains highly regulated. Long-run economic constraints include foreign trade barriers, declining oil production, high unemployment, rising budget deficits, increasing pressure on water supplies caused by heavy use in agriculture, rapid population growth, industrial expansion, water pollution, and widespread infrastructure damage.
Now we see the recognition of drought to the refugee crisis. Global warming has altered weather patterns causing water shortages in many areas of the world.
Damage to the economy DOES cause people to leave one area and risk their lives to seek livable conditions elsewhere. What would Americans do if we could not buy food or medicine or cars or houses and yet those opportunities existed in a neighboring country like Canada or Mexico. Perhaps Americans would relocate to other countries like the flood of retired Americans who flock to other countries, for instance, Costa Rica.
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Post by carpathianpeasant on Dec 10, 2015 18:46:28 GMT -6
More from the CIA factbook: "Economy - overview: Syria's economy continues to deteriorate amid the ongoing conflict that began in 2011. The economy further contracted in 2014 because of international sanctions, widespread infrastructure damage, diminished domestic consumption and production, reduced subsidies, and high inflation. The government has struggled to address the effects of economic decline, which include dwindling foreign exchange reserves, rising budget and trade deficits, and the decreasing value of the Syrian pound and household purchasing power. During 2014, the ongoing conflict and continued unrest and economic decline worsened the humanitarian crisis and elicited a greater need for international assistance, as the number of people in need inside Syria increased from 9.3 million to 12.2 million, and the number of Syrian refugees increased from 2.2 million to more than 3.3 million. Prior to the turmoil, Damascus began liberalizing economic policies, including cutting lending interest rates, opening private banks, consolidating multiple exchange rates, raising prices on some subsidized items, and establishing the Damascus Stock Exchange, but the economy remains highly regulated. Long-run economic constraints include foreign trade barriers, declining oil production, high unemployment, rising budget deficits, increasing pressure on water supplies caused by heavy use in agriculture, rapid population growth, industrial expansion, water pollution, and widespread infrastructure damage. Now we see the recognition of drought to the refugee crisis. Global warming has altered weather patterns causing water shortages in many areas of the world. Damage to the economy DOES cause people to leave one area and risk their lives to seek livable conditions elsewhere. What would Americans do if we could not buy food or medicine or cars or houses and yet those opportunities existed in a neighboring country like Canada or Mexico. Perhaps Americans would relocate to other countries like the flood of retired Americans who flock to other countries, for instance, Costa Rica. Are there reports of a drought in Morocco? I missed it. Got a link?
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