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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 16:11:29 GMT -6
We are all born in sin. Our parents Adam and Eve were put in a beautiful garden, they were in charge of it. They totally had it made, they were happy, no sin or sickness, we were never made to be sick. Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. This beautiful tree God would not allow them to eat of it...WHY? Actually it wasn't a tree at all, the tree was a metaphor. Adam and Eve sinned in having sex which was not allowed. Afterwards they realized they were naked and sewed fig leafs togather as aprons. Adam and Eve hid themselves for in the cool of the day (morning) they heard God walking in the garden. They had sinned and committed high treason and were banned from the beautiful garden. Satan by trickery had become the god of this world. No wonder it's so messed up. Sin, sickness, war, poverty.
Adam and Eve were lost, they had no rights. they'er childen were born in sin as we were. However God had a plan. A redeemer sent by God himself as the ultimate sacrifice, to save and redeem a lost world....US.
hmmmm. I forgot your question.
There are lots of good books to read that will help you. Books that will stir the heart but if you want faith you get it by reading God's word. I know it by heart, Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 17:36:01 GMT -6
So did God have a plan at some point to make sexual relations between Adam and Eve sanctioned by marriage ? Otherwise, how were they supposed to procreate ? Or were they ?
At the time, ( and this is also very confusing to me ) it is supposed that Adam and Eve were the first two people whom God created. Were they 'set up for a fall ' ? Or was this the original foundation for God's plan for salvation AND the choice of 'Free Will" ? Without sex, unless God had another immaculate conception in mind, how was the world supposed to be populated ? Now of course, there was this parallel Land of Nod which was obviously also populated by humans. How and when did this happen ? And I guess they didn't have the same rules about sex as did Adam and Eve...or maybe they did, but at some point they also procreated. I could go on forever. But this is but one example of the many many questions I have. And they aren't all explained in the Bible. So, are we just left to speculate about all the unanswered questions ?
But... the original conversation was about why God thought that Arabs were somehow inferior to other ethnic groups
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 18:21:43 GMT -6
I gave you Genesis 16:12. If you were to tell someone about a child of yours and you were to describe them as a wild man or woman and say that their hand would be against everyone and because of this everyone's hand would be against them. Not very flattering huh. A put down. To say the least, you would not be proud of them. That's how God describes them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 18:22:33 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2014 19:14:14 GMT -6
I gave you Genesis 16:12. If you were to tell someone about a child of yours and you were to describe them as a wild man or woman and say that their hand would be against everyone and because of this everyone's hand would be against them. Not very flattering huh. A put down. To say the least, you would not be proud of them. That's how God describes them. No, I would say I was not proud of their actions, but would not say they were 'lesser' in value..at least that's how I view parenthood.
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Post by rdlb on Sept 7, 2014 8:54:46 GMT -6
We are all born in sin. Our parents Adam and Eve were put in a beautiful garden, they were in charge of it. They totally had it made, they were happy, no sin or sickness, we were never made to be sick. Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. This beautiful tree God would not allow them to eat of it...WHY? Actually it wasn't a tree at all, the tree was a metaphor. Adam and Eve sinned in having sex which was not allowed. Afterwards they realized they were naked and sewed fig leafs togather as aprons. Adam and Eve hid themselves for in the cool of the day (morning) they heard God walking in the garden. They had sinned and committed high treason and were banned from the beautiful garden. Satan by trickery had become the god of this world. No wonder it's so messed up. Sin, sickness, war, poverty. Adam and Eve were lost, they had to rights. they'er childen were born in sin as we were. However God had a plan. A redeemer sent by God himself as the ultimate sacrifice, to save and redeem a lost world....US. hmmmm. I forgot your question. There are lots of good books to read that will help you. Books that will stir the heart but if you want faith you get it by reading God's word. I know it by heart, Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I do not see the connection to the title of this thread within your commentary.
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Post by rdlb on Sept 7, 2014 9:06:43 GMT -6
So did God have a plan at some point to make sexual relations between Adam and Eve sanctioned by marriage ? Otherwise, how were they supposed to procreate ? Or were they ? At the time, ( and this is also very confusing to me ) it is supposed that Adam and Eve were the first two people whom God created. Were they 'set up for a fall ' ? Or was this the original foundation for God's plan for salvation AND the choice of 'Free Will" ? Without sex, unless God had another immaculate conception in mind, how was the world supposed to be populated ? Now of course, there was this parallel Land of Nod which was obviously also populated by humans. How and when did this happen ? And I guess they didn't have the same rules about sex as did Adam and Eve...or maybe they did, but at some point they also procreated. I could go on forever. But this is but one example of the many many questions I have. And they aren't all explained in the Bible. So, are we just left to speculate about all the unanswered questions ? But... the original conversation was about why God thought that Arabs were somehow inferior to other ethnic groups Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
One could consider more than just a few ideas about Genesis. How is it Eve was the mother of all living? How is it that there was indicated a man shall leave his father and mother?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 12:47:06 GMT -6
I gave you Genesis 16:12. If you were to tell someone about a child of yours and you were to describe them as a wild man or woman and say that their hand would be against everyone and because of this everyone's hand would be against them. Not very flattering huh. A put down. To say the least, you would not be proud of them. That's how God describes them. ' A put down " Yet, according to the scripture, God spared Ishmael's life If he ( God was so 'ashamed of him ) he could have just as easily let him die in the desert. Maybe that's where the reference to a 'Wild Man' derived. Ismael and his Mother Hagar were sent away according to Sara's wishes and left to fend for themselves. So Ishmael became a child who was raised without benefit of a Father and became an acclaimed archer. Hagar fulfilled her role, providing Abraham a son, then Sara had them sent away. I view this as a selfish act and am left to wonder why Abraham would ever consent to such a selfish and cruel act . I also do not get the reference ( in the youtube video ) of a 'Satanic X mas tree. Was this film created by a Jehovah's Witness ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 14:39:42 GMT -6
I gave you Genesis 16:12. If you were to tell someone about a child of yours and you were to describe them as a wild man or woman and say that their hand would be against everyone and because of this everyone's hand would be against them. Not very flattering huh. A put down. To say the least, you would not be proud of them. That's how God describes them. ' A put down " Yet, according to the scripture, God spared Ishmael's life If he ( God was so 'ashamed of him ) he could have just as easily let him die in the desert. Maybe that's where the reference to a 'Wild Man' derived. Ismael and his Mother Hagar were sent away according to Sara's wishes and left to fend for themselves. So Ishmael became a child who was raised without benefit of a Father and became an acclaimed archer. Hagar fulfilled her role, providing Abraham a son, then Sara had them sent away. I view this as a selfish act and am left to wonder why Abraham would ever consent to such a selfish and cruel act . I also do not get the reference ( in the youtube video ) of a 'Satanic X mas tree. Was this film created by a Jehovah's Witness ? There are certain things that I don't like and one is a Christmas tree, it's pagan ritual. Another is the old easter bunny. Easter was the goddess of furtility thus all the eggs etc...all are pagan and were adopted into christianity. We are going to have a march of the Cross at our church. We all take turns carrying the cross across town. On the long end of the cross to make it easier they installed wheels on it . This is right out in the heart of the city, I'm sure I'll look like a fool and that makes me happy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 17:35:59 GMT -6
So do you never have a Christmas tree in your home during Christmas ? And the Easter Bunny. We all know, or at least I should think we all know that bunnies do not lay eggs. I've heard all the argument about the subject, but I view the eggs as symbolizing new life and 'new life', to me, is directly associated with the resurrection. I see nothing pagan about either. Your reference to carrying a cross across town eliminates any ideas of you being a Jehovah's Witness because they do not believe in the symbol of the cross. I see nothing wrong with adding a little splash of secular themes, like a Christmas tree and the Easter Bunny during each holiday There are many, many things of Pagan origin that have been adopted by Christianity, including the calendar and bells www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-symbols.htmlSo, now that I got that out of the way, let's get back to Ishmael. Did you read my thoughts about all that after I watched the video you posted ? I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation of Ishmael and the 'Wild Man' theory. It seems to me that Hagar and Ishmael were dealt a bad hand. They were used for a certain reason, then banished into the wilderness.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 18:16:36 GMT -6
I agree, they were treated harshly. But the way Ishmael turned out was the way he turned out. Blame it on who you want.
Charles Manson's mother was a prostitute....was he dealt a bad hand? Theres a preacher on tv, James Robison he came from the same background and he turned out to be a wonderful person.
God destroyed Pharaoh and said he had raised he up for that very purpose. It's God's doings not mine, I can tell you what the Bible says about it but the reason why God does things I cannot.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 18:35:35 GMT -6
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy. 17For the scripture says unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore has he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardens.
Romans 9:12-18
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 19:42:54 GMT -6
The further I delve into all the things in the Bible, the more confused I become.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 6:54:26 GMT -6
Some of the words in the Bible are non-translatable, so they used the next closest word. Like the diseases in Eygpt the Bible says I will put these diseases on you( if you sin) but in it's true language it means I will permitt these diseases to be put on you.
I personally don't believe God hated Esau, He simply was going to use Jacob to carve out a nation for his name....once again like Ishmael, Esau came up short, He was not God's choice.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 16:55:01 GMT -6
Hope is the most beautiful child of the senses. The very word is filled with fragrance. Hope paints the clouds at the setting of the sun and makes the dying day beautiful. God requires faith. Faith is a rugged thing, a creative force. Hebrews 11:1
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6
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