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Post by tindalus on Nov 18, 2015 15:27:17 GMT -6
I have no idea of the reliability of the organization, but I have no doubt some are escaping because of economics. Same reason that a lot of Mexicans come into the US from the south. But having said that, when there are hundreds of thousands refuges, it is hard to separate the difference.
Again, we are only letting in 10,000, and that will allow us plenty of time to separate from real refugees as opposed to economic refugees. Technically our laws allow asylum based on fear of life, not economic uncertainty.
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Post by carpathianpeasant on Nov 18, 2015 17:41:27 GMT -6
I have no idea of the reliability of the organization, but I have no doubt some are escaping because of economics. Same reason that a lot of Mexicans come into the US from the south. But having said that, when there are hundreds of thousands refuges, it is hard to separate the difference. Again, we are only letting in 10,000, and that will allow us plenty of time to separate from real refugees as opposed to economic refugees. Technically our laws allow asylum based on fear of life, not economic uncertainty. Evidently fake Syrian passports aren't too good anymore as now there is also fake (in this case stolen) Greek. Yahoo News (PS: the above is a link to a news story. If you use the link button, you can put a name on your link.)
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Post by tindalus on Nov 18, 2015 17:48:50 GMT -6
And how did they discover the fake? They coulld tell because the numbers weren't consistant with syrian passports. That should ever have been accepted. That's where communications is important to prevet fake passports being used.
But as it is, it doesn't appear that any "syrian" refugee was involved in the terrorist attack. Instead they think that it was a deliberate plant by ISIS to provoke just what is happening in this country. Attacks on Syrians, the refusal to allow them in this country.
I read an article today that I thought was interesting from an ISIS defector. He pointed out that the biggest reason they get thousands of recruits is money. People who are desparate for money to survive. Not ideology. Money. We leave those syrians in desparate conditions, don't be surprised if all we succeed in doing is creating more terrorists.
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Post by lowell on Nov 18, 2015 20:21:28 GMT -6
For us, trying to remove Assad, like we removed Saddam and Gaddafi, will only ensure more instability in countries in the Middle East. It will only increase the economic refugees that overburden neighboring governments. It was a big mistake to support rebellion against Assad just as it was a big mistake to remove Saddam. We heard the Benghazi Benghazi Benghazi cry and still here it. Some people who have access to the press, still mourn the loss of a diplomat and his bodyguards and search for someone to blame. Removing Gaddafi without having a replacement government waiting in the wings was a big mistake too. We are responsible for the crisis (let's see what is the plural?) ah crises in the Middle East. We did that.
An independent observer would think that we are trying to get more people killing each other there. We are trying to spread more violence and suffering there. So of course, we are not interested in a solution. We are profiting from the fear, anger, and death.
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Post by tindalus on Nov 18, 2015 20:47:58 GMT -6
I totally agree. Terrorism has been around for awhile and other than Bin Laden and 9/11 it was still fairly rare in the west. But once we invaded Iraq, we had played into their hands. They never had a chance of getting rid of Sadam and they goaded us into doing it for them. We did their bidding and the country is now unstable and an economic mess, and because of that it has beome a recruiting bonanza for terrorists. We need to stay out of their fight instead of butting our heads into the fight. But unfortunately the greed for oil keeps us in a part of the world that is none of our business.
Our country earned our freedom by fighting for it. We can't just hand a democracy to a country or a culture that has no understanding of our sense of freedom. They have to decide to fight for it and win it. Otherwise they will never value their freedom. Right now it is nothing more than a bunch of factions fighting for control and using whatever means they have at hand to gain that power.
Obama is correct., we need to convince the middle east to handle their own problems and keep our boots off the ground. Otherwise we will just become a target and won't be solving any problems. Nor is there anyway we can win unless we decided to emulate Ghenghis Khan in how he handled oppostion to his invasions. And most people in this world will not appreciate it and ethically and morally there would be no excuse for our actions if we were to do what Ghenghis did 800 years ago.
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orogenicman
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Post by orogenicman on Nov 18, 2015 21:42:12 GMT -6
More people die every year in this country due to domestic violence than have ever been killed in this country by terrorists. That includes violence across state lines. The efforts we have made to secure this country since 9/11 surpasses any other country that isn't totalitarian in nature. As for the governors, if they were truly concerned about their citizens, then ensuring their liberties certainly should be their primary goal, as indicated by the oath they took for office. Per the U.S. Constitution, jurisdiction over immigration matters falls solely with the Federal government. The states have no jurisdiction on this matter. If Syrians are allowed to come into this country. Their children born here would be American Citizens....say they become radicalized, and some of them would, that would be the worse case scenario. Imbedded, Lone wolf terrorists would become part of every day life here. It could happen and it will happen if it's not stopped now. If we are not going to allow Syrian refugees to immigrate here on the off chance that one of them will be a terrorist who attacks us, then we should not allow white people near movie theaters and schools.
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orogenicman
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Old enough to remember how to make stone tools
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Post by orogenicman on Nov 18, 2015 21:42:50 GMT -6
What congressional action would that be? Change the law, give the state authority. Good luck with that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 6:44:15 GMT -6
If Syrians are allowed to come into this country. Their children born here would be American Citizens....say they become radicalized, and some of them would, that would be the worse case scenario. Imbedded, Lone wolf terrorists would become part of every day life here. It could happen and it will happen if it's not stopped now. If we are not going to allow Syrian refugees to immigrate here on the off chance that one of them will be a terrorist who attacks us, then we should not allow white people near movie theaters and schools. Mr. O, what you are saying sounds prefectly logical and fair. What you are leaving out is Islam. I know I've heard how it's (Islam) just like any other religion, but it's not. They encourage radicalism and have the Jihad mentality. You don't find many Catholics or Baptist blowing planes out of the sky, or priest and nuns decapitating children. On the surface you make a good case but it just isn't so.
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Post by tindalus on Nov 19, 2015 6:56:36 GMT -6
They don't encourage radicalism. Radicalism is driven by desparate people who want change in their lives and the societies they live in are so corrupt....
Jihad isn't what some radicals take it as being. Jihad is suppose to be the war of good and evil inside the person, not people of other religioins. IN fact Mohammad taught tolerance of all religions. If any musim kills anyone because of religion, then they are clearly violating every principal taught by Mohammad.
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orogenicman
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Old enough to remember how to make stone tools
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Post by orogenicman on Nov 19, 2015 7:46:20 GMT -6
If we are not going to allow Syrian refugees to immigrate here on the off chance that one of them will be a terrorist who attacks us, then we should not allow white people near movie theaters and schools. Mr. O, what you are saying sounds prefectly logical and fair. What you are leaving out is Islam. I know I've heard how it's (Islam) just like any other religion, but it's not. They encourage radicalism and have the Jihad mentality. You don't find many Catholics or Baptist blowing planes out of the sky, or priest and nuns decapitating children. On the surface you make a good case but it just isn't so. Islam does no such thing. Mohammed Ali is a Muslim. And he is one of the gentlest men on the planet. Suggesting that Islam encourages radicalism assumes that radical Islamists represent Islam. That is exactly like saying that David Koresh represented all Christians. He doesn't, and they don't. Do you know any Muslims on a personal level? I have and do. What happened in Paris does not represent all Muslims.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 8:30:35 GMT -6
Mr. O, what you are saying sounds prefectly logical and fair. What you are leaving out is Islam. I know I've heard how it's (Islam) just like any other religion, but it's not. They encourage radicalism and have the Jihad mentality. You don't find many Catholics or Baptist blowing planes out of the sky, or priest and nuns decapitating children. On the surface you make a good case but it just isn't so. Islam does no such thing. Mohammed Ali is a Muslim. And he is one of the gentlest men on the planet. Suggesting that Islam encourages radicalism assumes that radical Islamists represent Islam. That is exactly like saying that David Koresh represented all Christians. He doesn't, and they don't. Do you know any Muslims on a personal level? I have and do. What happened in Paris does not represent all Muslims.
I worked with one Arab man but he was Iranian which does not qualify as a Arab, He would fly off the handle at the drop of a hat. He told me he loved hot apple pie with ice cream, yeah he was some what westernized. Mr. O, If you are right I wish I could see it the way you do, but I don't, neither do a lot of other people.
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Post by tindalus on Nov 19, 2015 8:59:07 GMT -6
unfortunately the many are judged by the few. It is best to always remember that there is always two sides to any story. Even friends when they blame everything on their wife or husband.....I take what they say with a grain of salt because it is human nature to present yourself in a better light. They are my friends anyways. Same situation here with what happened in Paris. One can easily succumb to the idea that they are all terrorists because you don't know many muslims, but they aren't. They overwhelmingly do not support the actions of ISIS.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 9:08:47 GMT -6
unfortunately the many are judged by the few. It is best to always remember that there is always two sides to any story. Even friends when they blame everything on their wife or husband.....I take what they say with a grain of salt because it is human nature to present yourself in a better light. They are my friends anyways. Same situation here with what happened in Paris. One can easily succumb to the idea that they are all terrorists because you don't know many muslims, but they aren't. They overwhelmingly do not support the actions of ISIS. You guys really need to join the real world. Anyone with one eye and half sense would use a reasonable amount of caution at the present time. It's easy to see you all are followers of Hussein Obama.
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Post by tindalus on Nov 19, 2015 9:17:41 GMT -6
who is Hussein Obama?
As to Obama our president, yes I do support him. Even though he isn't perfect he makes far more commonsense then Cruz, bush, carson, Trump, or pretty much all of the republican candidates who want to vilify a religion and exploit fear.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 10:13:48 GMT -6
Yep, he makes a lot of sense with what he says but few things he says ever pans out. Like insurance. Obama is a flim flam man, nothing more.
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