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Post by carpathianpeasant on Dec 14, 2015 9:39:14 GMT -6
1. Start with the "Middle Eastern" premise (and selling point).
The world is going to end (near to immediately). Their equivalent of "Jesus will return in glory" will then happen. And, there is a timeline for the conversion of the earth to meet that event. The business is global, and American political opinions have no more than a minimal place in the discussion so you might as well can them and bury them.
2. Western civilization is based on Greek thought (principles). There are a lot of Jewish principles (like the ten commandments) and other ideas in it, but those have been filtered through that Greek thought. Greek thought and Middle Eastern ideas are not compatible. One or the other will dominate, and currently western peoples have little thought of being on top.
3. Religious conversions are personal events. Anyone anywhere can be a convert to a belief system, so looking through any collection of people for who is "moderate" and who is "radicalized" is a d*mn waste of time. It can change in an instant.
(And, that's enough for now.)
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Post by lowell on Dec 15, 2015 3:58:17 GMT -6
I keep hoping that many people will instantly convert to Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism. There is a humorous aspect to this. When the lay organization was called NSA (Nichiren Shoshu of America), our leader, Mr. Williams (his original name was Masayasu Sadenaga) noted that it was extremely difficult to persuade people to convert. He said it was a kind of negative proof of the religion. He said this because this is predicted in the Lotus Sutra Chapter 13. "After the Buddha has entered extinction we will honor, embrace, read, recite and preach this sutra. Living beings in the evil age to come will have fewer and fewer good roots. Many will be overbearingly arrogant and greedy for offerings and other forms of gain, increasing the roots that are not good and moving farther than ever away from emancipation. But although it will be difficult to teach and convert them, we will summon up the power of great patience and will read and recite this sutra, embrace preach and copy it, offering it many kinds of alms and never begrudging our lives."
"At that time the bodhisattvas joined their voices together and spoke in verse form, saying:
We beg you not to worry. After the Buddha has passed into extinction, in an age of fear and evil we will preach far and wide. There will be many ignorant people who will curse and speak ill of us and will attack us with swords and staves, but we will endure all these things. In that evil age there will be monks with perverse wisdom and hearts that are fawning and crooked who will suppose they have attained what they have not attained, being proud and boastful in heart. Or there will be forest-dwelling monks wearing clothing of patched rags and living in retirement, who will claim they are practicing the true way, despising and looking down on all humankind. Greedy for profit and support, they will preach the law to white-robed laymen and will be respected and revered by the world as though they were arhats who possess the six transcendental powers. These men with evil in their hearts, constantly thinking of worldly affairs, will borrow the name of forest-dwelling monks and take delight in proclaiming our faults, saying things like this: "These monks are greedy for profit and support and therefore they preach non-Buddhist doctrines and fabricate their own scriptures to delude the people of the world. Because they hope to gain fame and renown thereby they make distinctions when preaching this sutra." Because in the midst of the great assembly they constantly try to defame us, they will address the rulers, high ministers, Brahmans and householders, as well as other monks, slandering and speaking evil of us, saying, "These are men of perverted views who preach non-Buddhist doctrines!" But because we revere the Buddha we will bear all these evils. Though they treat us with contempt, saying, "You are all no doubt Buddhas!" All such words of arrogance and contempt we will endure and accept. In a muddied kalpa, in an evil age there will be many things to fear. Evil demons will take possession of others and through them curse, revile and heap shame on us. But we, reverently trusting in the Buddha, will put on the armor of perseverance. In order to preach this sutra we will bear these difficult things. We care nothing for our bodies or lives but are anxious only for the unsurpassed way. In ages to come we will protect and uphold what the Buddha has entrusted to us. This the World-Honored One must know. The evil monks of that muddied age, failing to understand the Buddha's expedient means, how he preaches the Law in accordance with what is appropriate, will confront us with foul language and angry frowns; again and again we will be banished to a place far removed from towers and temples. All these various evils, because they keep in mind the Buddha's orders, we will endure. If in the settlements and towns of those who seek the Law, we will go to wherever they are and preach the Law entrusted by the Buddha. We will be envoys of the World-Honored One, facing the assembly without fear. We will preach the law with skill, for we desire the Buddha to rest in tranquility. In the presence of the World-Honored One and of the Buddhas who have gathered from the ten directions to proclaim this vow. The Buddha must know what is in our hearts."
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Post by lowell on Dec 15, 2015 4:12:54 GMT -6
In Chapter 11 the Buddha says: "All you good men, each of you must consider carefully! This is a difficult matter- it is proper you should make a great vow. The other sutras number as many as Ganges sands, but though you expound those sutras, that is not worth regarding as difficult. If you were to seize Mount Sumeru and fling it far off to the measureless Buddha lands, that too would not be difficult. If you used the toe of your foot to move a thousand-million-fold world, booting it far away to other lands, that too would not be difficult. If you stood in the Summit of Being heaven and for the sake of the assembly preached countless other sutras, that too would not be difficult. But if after the Buddha has entered extinction , in the time of evil, you can preach this sutra, that will be difficult indeed! If there were a person who took the empty sky in his hand and walked all around with it, that would not be difficult. But if after I have passed into extinction one can write out and embrace this sutra and cause others to write it out, that will be difficult indeed! If one took the great earth, placed it on his toenail, and ascended with it to the Brahma heaven, that would not be difficult. But if after the Buddha has passed into extinction, in the time of evil, one can even for a little while read this sutra, that will be difficult indeed! If , when the fires come at the end of the kalpa, one can load dry grass on his back and enter the fire without being burned, that would not be difficult. But after I have passed into extinction if one can embrace this sutra and expound it to even one person, that will be difficult indeed! If one were to embrace this storehouse of eighty-four thousand doctrines, the twelve divisions of the sutras, and expound it to others, causing listeners to acquire the six transcendental powers- though one could do that, that would not be difficult. But after I have entered extinction if one can listen to and accept this sutra and ask about its meaning, that will be difficult indeed! If a person expounds the Law, allowing thousands, ten thousands, millions, immeasurable number of living beings equal to Ganges sands to become arhats endowed with the six transcendental powers, though one might confer such benefits that would not be difficult. But after I have entered extinction if one can honor and embrace a sutra such as this one, that will be difficult indeed! For the sake of the Buddha way in immeasurable numbers of lands from the beginning until now I have widely preached many sutras, and among them this sutra is foremost."
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Post by carpathianpeasant on Dec 15, 2015 6:33:33 GMT -6
Well, that wiped out the topic (but not the subject) in a hurry.
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Post by lowell on Dec 15, 2015 23:11:43 GMT -6
3. Religious conversions are personal events. Anyone anywhere can be a convert to a belief system, so looking through any collection of people for who is "moderate" and who is "radicalized" is a d*mn waste of time. It can change in an instant.
(And, that's enough for now.) Hmmm. Possible, not probable.
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Post by tindalus on Dec 16, 2015 17:00:47 GMT -6
Buddhism is nice, but nothing I would convert to...at least in this life.
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