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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 4:21:42 GMT -6
You hear on tv how bad the drug problem is but unless you've seen it up close like I have you don't realize how bad the problem is. I've never see a full blown drug addict fully recover. Some get off of it for a while but they always go back.
I think classes on drug use should be mandatory in high school.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 11:45:00 GMT -6
Well. not necessarily so. It is true that once an addict always an addict, just as it's true that once an alcoholic always an alcoholic.
This is why I become so angry with one particular commercial on TV that promises a 'cure' for drug addiction. There is no 'cure'.. However there are programs that can give a person the tools with which they can address their problem, and with proper counselling, they can overcome their problem and go on to leading productive lives. All is not lost 100% of the time. some have to go to rehab five- six times before it 'takes', some never get clean. It takes hard work, dedication and a resolve to conquor drug addiction. And it will always be a work in progress, just as with an alcoholic, because they will be faced with temptation every day for the remainder of their lives.
As far as mandatory classes on drug use in high school, most schools incorporate drug use with sex education...however, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
I know two people who were users for twenty or more years, one heroin one cocaine. Both have been clean for over fifteen years now. it can be done. Does that mean at some point they may not slip back into their habit ? No, it simply means they have not used in the aount of time specified. I'm sure every day is a struggle. Drug sddiction is not only an emotional disease, it's also physical. They have a physical dependency on their drug of choice.
the heroin addict was and still is a very good friend of ours. He owned his own business and was making in the high six figure income yearly. It took losing his family, his home, his health and his business before he fully faced his demons. He has made remarkable progress.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 12:24:55 GMT -6
I have worked with addicts for nearly 11 years and I can not paint so rosy a picture. Drug addiction changes brain chemistry. They go from wanting a fix to needing a fix. Drug addiction is a hopelessly incurable condition in almost every case.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 18:09:50 GMT -6
I have worked with addicts for nearly 11 years and I can not paint so rosy a picture. Drug addiction changes brain chemistry. They go from wanting a fix to needing a fix. Drug addiction is a hopelessly incurable condition in almost every case. Well, we differ. I have seen good results. There are hundreds of thousands of drug addicts who have altered the addiction and lead perfectly normal lives. They need support, not condescension.. They don't need enabling, but everyone needs support. They need to know that their lives matter To say that drug addiction is a 'hopelessly incurable' condition is correct only by virtue of your choice of words. As I said there is no cure... there is however a good chance for learning how to cope and live with the addiction. What they need most is hope. Addicts CAN be programmed to live without drugs. I've seen success stories, many more than I've mentioned here. Would you say the same about alcoholism ? Alcohol is a drug. The same prognosis applies.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 7:10:45 GMT -6
I sure have not seen results like that. What I have seen is...rehab, rehab, jail, rehab, jail and it never stops until they overdose. If they live through a overdose that usually don't even faze them their back at it again. The cure rate for a heroin addict in a lot of cases is less then 20%. I personally have never seen any one get off it and stay off it.
Not long ago there was a young man there a nice looking young guy, a Catholic and his family was well off. He was on heroin. They got him help and he did get off it and was off it for 10 months, he relapsed and overdosed and that was all for him.
Lots are helped but few people stay off it long term.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 9:20:51 GMT -6
Gregg Allman is a success story. A heroin addict and alcholic for 35 years,he eventually needed a liver transplant. He has been clean and sober for some 15 years now. Mac Rebenneck aka Dr John is another heroin success story. Clean for over 20 years now.
Sydney : "The cure rate for a heroin addict in a lot of cases is less then 20%."
Let me reiterate. There is NO 'cure' Only reprogramming to learn how to live a clean life. The addiction will always remain, but people can learn how to overcome it and lead productive lives. Drug addiction knows no social, religious, socio-economic boundaries. It affects a cross section of the population. But I've seen successes and I never give up hope. Once hope is lost, all else is for naught.
You didn't address alcohol. Do you see it in the same light ? All are rehabilitated alcoholics doomed to relapse ?
The main problem in this country is abuse of prescription drugs. I don't have any hard stats, but I would venture to say that more people overdose on prescription drugs than do on heroin or cocaine.
What role do you fulfill in working with these addicts ? Counselling'? Often times drug abuse is in combination with a mental or emotional disorder, so any amount of 'counselling alone will not help. They need professional help. It's a many faceted illness.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 12:02:25 GMT -6
I'm going to give you an example, every hear of Phillip Seymour Hoffman? Sure he was clean for 20 years and then overdosed. It's called having the monkey on your back.
There are lots of info on drugs here on the internet, all I'm saying is I've never seen it like that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 14:11:23 GMT -6
I'm going to give you an example, every hear of Phillip Seymour Hoffman? Sure he was clean for 20 years and then overdosed. It's called having the monkey on your back. There are lots of info on drugs here on the internet, all I'm saying is I've never seen it like that. sydney, don't get the idea that I'm arguing with you, I'm not. But you seem to have this fatalist concept of drug addiction and i'm also saying there are thousands of people who have overcome addiction... NOT 'Cured' but have learned how to cope with it..the term 'Having a monkey on your back ' is an antiquated term ' and is one of those 'politically unacceptable terms. It somehow doesn't give the addict the respect they deserve in approaching their treatment. What is your approach with the clients you deal with ? How do you help them given your personal opinion of 'recovery' ? Of course I've heard of Phillip Seymour Hoffman.But what I'm saying is that it doesn't happen to everyone. People who work with addicts should first and above everything else offer hope. Where there is life there is hope. Now again, what about alcoholics ? Same prognosis ? I'm an eternal optimist, I have faith in people. Every recovery is a triumph. There could be people reading this who are struggling. To automatically shut down all hopes for recovery is doing no one any favors or offering hope.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 15:48:54 GMT -6
Go to Sydney's room at the bottom, there's someone I've tried to help over and over, didn't work.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 21:50:02 GMT -6
Go to Sydney's room at the bottom, there's someone I've tried to help over and over, didn't work. Maybe it just hasn't worked 'yet'
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Post by matador on May 3, 2015 14:24:28 GMT -6
You hear on tv how bad the drug problem is but unless you've seen it up close like I have you don't realize how bad the problem is. I've never see a full blown drug addict fully recover. Some get off of it for a while but they always go back.
I think classes on drug use should be mandatory in high school. When my kids were in school back in the 80s I went with them to all those 'Say NO' classes and they were just not effective. There was no valid scientific research and the instructors, mainly LEO's who gave the lectures were not informed and they really preached moderation not to abuse drugs. Were you a drug counselor? I did my share of that and currently I work part time at the local MHMR clinic and see my fair share of addicts. The most important part of being a chemical dependency/drug abuser counselor is that addicts lie. The only way to make sure they are telling the truth is to have them do drug tests before each session.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 19:02:19 GMT -6
You hear on tv how bad the drug problem is but unless you've seen it up close like I have you don't realize how bad the problem is. I've never see a full blown drug addict fully recover. Some get off of it for a while but they always go back.
I think classes on drug use should be mandatory in high school. When my kids were in school back in the 80s I went with them to all those 'Say NO' classes and they were just not effective. There was no valid scientific research and the instructors, mainly LEO's who gave the lectures were not informed and they really preached moderation not to abuse drugs. Were you a drug counselor? I did my share of that and currently I work part time at the local MHMR clinic and see my fair share of addicts. The most important part of being a chemical dependency/drug abuser counselor is that addicts lie. The only way to make sure they are telling the truth is to have them do drug tests before each session. i think sydney was talking about long term recovery from drug addiction.
Although the rates may not be as high as we would like, it does happen. Many people learn to live with their addiction and lead clean lives. Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom and lose everything before they get serious about cleaning up their act.
The important thing is that we, as society, not give up on these people. They need support, I'm not talking about support in the form of coddling, but support in a way that lets them know that it can be done. Drug addiction is not a character flaw as most people view it, it is a serious psychological and physical illness. Psychiatric help is often needed too. People who are not professionally equipped in this area can do far more harm than good.
As far as the public school system goes, it's a joke. Most systems do not have the resources for quality drug couciling. They give some gym teacher a packet and expect them to be equipped to council on something as complex as drug abuse. The kids eat them alive. They're like heat seeking missiles, they know they're being played and are not being given the quality material they deserve.
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Post by matador on May 8, 2015 1:19:01 GMT -6
When my kids were in school back in the 80s I went with them to all those 'Say NO' classes and they were just not effective. There was no valid scientific research and the instructors, mainly LEO's who gave the lectures were not informed and they really preached moderation not to abuse drugs. Were you a drug counselor? I did my share of that and currently I work part time at the local MHMR clinic and see my fair share of addicts. The most important part of being a chemical dependency/drug abuser counselor is that addicts lie. The only way to make sure they are telling the truth is to have them do drug tests before each session. i think sydney was talking about long term recovery from drug addiction.
Although the rates may not be as high as we would like, it does happen. Many people learn to live with their addiction and lead clean lives. Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom and lose everything before they get serious about cleaning up their act.
The important thing is that we, as society, not give up on these people. They need support, I'm not talking about support in the form of coddling, but support in a way that lets them know that it can be done. Drug addiction is not a character flaw as most people view it, it is a serious psychological and physical illness. Psychiatric help is often needed too. People who are not professionally equipped in this area can do far more harm than good.
As far as the public school system goes, it's a joke. Most systems do not have the resources for quality drug couciling. They give some gym teacher a packet and expect them to be equipped to council on something as complex as drug abuse. The kids eat them alive. They're like heat seeking missiles, they know they're being played and are not being given the quality material they deserve. I know and so was I. It takes a lot of work and an addict will always be an addict. An addict in therapy is still an addict and they do have a tendency to lie to the counselor. That is what I was taught when I took Chemical Dependency classes for my license along with Mental Health classes. At the clinic I volunteer at every session with an addict there is a blood test for drugs in their system. Most of the time they are clean but that is most of the time and not for every test. They will say they are clean, they aren't using, and then 'bam' they test positive. Last week we had a return drug addict, I did the input on this one, who was clean for 16 years and fell when they were out with friends and took a hit. It took that one time to bring them back into use and abuse. With drug addicts you hope for the best but you plan for the worse. I have seen some who managed to kick it and go on to lead a decent life but there are those who do and fall back into drugs because they couldn't help it. An addict will always be an addict and an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic, alcohol is a drug and can be abused. The problem with public schools is they are underfunded and that prevents a lot of districts from hiring licensed counselors at every school. They might have one or two, and maybe one in the high school, but most of the time they use what they call peer type counselors. I could point fingers at who is the blame for the underfunding of today's education but I won't because that is another issue for another forum. Heck, some schools are so strapped they can't hire the best in teachers either.
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