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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 3:20:39 GMT -6
"I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day." - Copy to Clipboard -- Abraham Lincoln
I can relate to that statement. My question is where do the atheist go in times of trouble?
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Post by rdlb on Jun 22, 2014 15:52:28 GMT -6
"I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day." - Copy to Clipboard -- Abraham Lincoln
I can relate to that statement. My question is where do the atheist go in times of trouble?
We were listening to a radio broadcast by a minister this morning. He remarked that right after 9/11 the church attendance just about doubled. It is interesting what drives others to a place of worship and prayer.
Reply to Eliza Gurney on October 26, 1862 (CWAL V:478) Abraham Lincoln
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 7:32:02 GMT -6
Strange that a man like Lincoln could write something so beautiful and yet never found it in his heart to forgive his own father. Thomas Lincoln never met Abraham's children. Abraham never attended his father's funeral.
To forgive is not easy for some people, for me it's usually not. There's no special talent on my side it's just the way I am. When I was younger I suffered from low self-esteem, maybe that's why, I don't know.
One other thing about Lincoln's letter, he seems to accept things as God's providence. When The Bible clearly gives us options and a way out in most cases.
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Post by rdlb on Jun 29, 2014 12:18:56 GMT -6
Strange that a man like Lincoln could write something so beautiful and yet never found it in his heart to forgive his own father. Thomas Lincoln never met Abraham's children. Abraham never attended his father's funeral. To forgive is not easy for some people, for me it's usually not. There's no special talent on my side it's just the way I am. When I was younger I suffered from low self-esteem, maybe that's why, I don't know. One other thing about Lincoln's letter, he seems to accept things as God's providence. When The Bible clearly gives us options and a way out in most cases. Sometimes adversity brings out a inner character response more appropriate for the time as in Lincoln's case. While the Bible can and does give us "a choice" of paths, the Bible also lets us know the results of paths chosen. After four decades in the ministry, I prefer God's path.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 16:58:16 GMT -6
I agree with that, however some people refer to God as Love and I guess thats right, they make it sound like he's a giant fuzzball somewhere in the sky. But God's judgements can also be very severe.
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Post by samsara15 on Jul 5, 2014 20:59:48 GMT -6
"I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day." - Copy to Clipboard -- Abraham Lincoln
I can relate to that statement. My question is where do the atheist go in times of trouble?
All the more reason to doubt that our own vision of God, or the lack of one, is correct. What we wish for is more wisdom, intelligence, and knowledge than we can ever have. So we are reduced to following our feelings, fully knowing, that they too, are an inadequate guide. We walk in darkness.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 2:40:16 GMT -6
Abiding in the Shadow of the Almighty. My hiding place. Psalm 91 91He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide [1] under the shadow of the Almighty. 2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. 3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. 4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. 5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; 6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. 7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. 8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; 10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. 13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: [2] the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet. 14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. 15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. 16 With long [3] life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.
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Post by rdlb on Jul 6, 2014 13:55:34 GMT -6
"I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all about me, seemed insufficient for the day." - Copy to Clipboard -- Abraham Lincoln
I can relate to that statement. My question is where do the atheist go in times of trouble?
All the more reason to doubt that our own vision of God, or the lack of one, is correct. What we wish for is more wisdom, intelligence, and knowledge than we can ever have. So we are reduced to following our feelings, fully knowing, that they too, are an inadequate guide. We walk in darkness. My personal experience of being out of the body, in the spirit and hearing an audible voice is correct for me. I was not reduced to following a feeling as I did not seek that experience out, it just happened. The experience was not the end all but a beginning towards an understanding, the gnosis of just Who and What God IS. I was spoken to several things, yet the most important of those was simply, " Keep MY Word". I could only at that time in my life relate that commandment to John 1:1-3. Many months later a Prophet laid hands on my shoulders and prayed for me, in then spoke in and of the spirit several things to me. The one thing that still haunts my spirit, " And as I told you before, Keep My Word". For the past four decades I have endeavored to do so, the results of which have carried me to states of change within who I was, am and yet to become. I no longer doubt, I no longer have fear as I know where I have been and where I am going; I no longer walk in darkness, I walk in the light and I am humbled in His light. The Apostle Peter after spending some time with Jesus, participating in healing the sick, cleansing the lepers, raising the dead and casting out devils, finally recognized Who Jesus Was. This revelation was based on Peter's experience and not based on his feelings. The difficulty with the Bible does not lie with the Bible, it lays within individuals who are sensuous, (the more neutral term not sexual). The outward appearance of the Bible, i.e., it is written by men, historically incomplete and non-scientifically relevant. It is within the allegorical, metaphysical and the parables of Jesus that can be found the "light" for the darkness engulfing certain individuals wherein they walk. So, where does the Atheist or unbeliever go? Luke in his gospel makes it clear in one of the many parables that Jesus used. Consider this parable: Luke 16:19-31 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 'And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 'But Abraham said, Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. ‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 'And he said, Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 'But Abraham *said, ‘ They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 'But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘ If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead."
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Post by samsara15 on Jul 6, 2014 20:33:38 GMT -6
There is no persuasion. We follow our feelings.
My feeling is that I am one with the universe, and so are we all. What is front of our eyes, and is there for all to see, is what is. Nothing is lacking.
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Post by rdlb on Jul 7, 2014 9:05:45 GMT -6
There is no doubt in my mind that God is real. I have seen his awesome power to lift the trodden up and cast the proud and surly down. God can't be understood with the mind, God can only be understood with the heart. Greek word koilia: (feminine noun) the innermost part of a man, the soul, heart as the seat of thought, feeling, choice
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly (koilia) shall flow rivers of living water.
Greek word kardia: (feminine noun) denotes the center of all physical and spiritual life, the vigor and sense of physical life The center and seat of spiritual life The soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavors Of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence Of the will and character Of the soul so far as it is affected and stirred in a bad way or good, or of the soul as the seat of the sensibilities, affections, emotions, desires, appetites, passions
Romans 10:10
For man believes with his heart (kardia) and so is justified, and he confesses with his lips and so is saved.
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Post by rdlb on Jul 7, 2014 15:56:20 GMT -6
I agree with that. Too many people try to believe in God with their mind (head knowledge) and it can't be done, soo they think there is no God, God is not real. I have studied the subject extensively, however you did throw out a couple new words. I'll look into it look into it. In many passages of the Word it is said from the heart and from the soul, or from the whole heart and from the whole soul, and by this is signified that it is from all the will and all the understanding. That man has two faculties, namely, will and understanding, may be known to every one; also that the will is a separate faculty from the understanding, for we are able to understand good and truth and yet will what is evil and false.
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Post by samsara15 on Jul 7, 2014 18:27:52 GMT -6
When the sands of time run out, and we, or what passes for we, play this game all over again, and recall not a whit of it, we will make the same mistakes all over again, and not even realize it. Because what makes those mistakes will not be us, even if it looks like us and did all the same things we did. Because we can exist only once, and this afterlife happens to another entity. Of course, that is true every morning. Can anyone, or any thing tell the difference? There, you get into the realms of God(s), and perhaps they, or IT, can. That is beyond our knowing.
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Post by tindalus on Jul 7, 2014 19:48:25 GMT -6
Yep, when this little one dies....that's it for my personality. I am gone forever.
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Post by tindalus on Jul 8, 2014 13:35:27 GMT -6
Not really. People too often and also part of the problem with christianity is that they are confused at who one is verses the personality.
My personality has developed over the years based on my experience, tied together with the memories and the habits I have built over the years. That's it. But the personality isn't me. When this body dies, so does the personality.
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Post by samsara15 on Jul 9, 2014 17:42:08 GMT -6
Yep, when this little one dies....that's it for my personality. I am gone forever. Kinda bleak outlook when there's so much out there for you. The Bible speaks of a still small voice that speaks to us....reject that voice long enough and it gets weaker and weaker until you can no longer can hear it. LISTEN. It's not bleak at all. After all, every morning is a new you, filled with possibility. Perhaps you need to listen, too, before you lecture others. We should try to live in the universe that we are in, not the one we wish we lived in. And perhaps none of us should preach to others, and let others experience their own universe, and none of us ever lecture to anyone else. Hard to do that, isn't it? When our own POV, to us, seems so obviously correct, and their's wrong? And we see so many people so obviously so wrong, doing so many harmful things to others? It isn't easy, being human. There are no easy answers, including my own, and none that I have ever written, or seen written. I wish I had a perfect answer, but I suspect there is none.
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