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Post by samsara15 on May 11, 2014 20:39:20 GMT -6
Do abstract objects exist? Is '12' real, or does it only exist in human minds? The view that '12' is real is called universalism. I believe that universalism is the strongest hope of theists. The view that '12' is not real, and is just an abstract idea, existing only in our minds, is called nominalism. There are several schools of thought in both groups. I'm not sure which group I belong to. It depends on my mood, and being a fickle person, that varies. And not being the sharpest axe in the shed, I can easily, but temporarily, be persuaded by someone else's point of view. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NominalismIn some moods, I believe universalism offers the best human hope for an afterlife, or salvation. Max Tegmark has written a book or two on that idea.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 4:34:06 GMT -6
I read that, I don't fully understand it but I did read it.
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Post by samsara15 on May 12, 2014 5:10:51 GMT -6
Neither do I, sydney, and perhaps no one does, but I work on it. That, for better or worse, is the sort of path that is available to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 5:30:27 GMT -6
I don't know about you but I was brought up in a Christian Home. I never thought about searching for the truth. Like laying down in bed when you're tired, I am at ease, at rest, no need to look farther.
I hope you find what your looking for. 1 Kings 19:11-13 It talks about a still small voice. Really bad people can't hear that voice. People like Ted Bundy for example. The rest of us can if only we'll listen. My only advice is...Listen.
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Post by samsara15 on May 12, 2014 6:46:31 GMT -6
I have no faith in faith, and I doubt I will find what I am looking for.
Many generations of people, quite a few of them much brighter, more perceptive, and wiser than I, have thought deeply about these issues, and still have not been able to resolve them.
What I feel my duty is, to the best of my ability, to try to understand was much as I can. Al I seek is a few pointers and hints from others also seeking to understand. I do not expect to find the answers to all questions.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 6:56:51 GMT -6
God can not be understood with your mind, can't be done. You understand God with your heart.
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Post by samsara15 on May 12, 2014 7:19:00 GMT -6
I keep telling you I use feelings as much as intellect, sydney. What makes you think that Christians bring any more heart to the issue than any other group? A mystic, of whatever stripe, tries to use and and all tools available. Feelings are as much part of the intellect as reasoning, maybe even more so.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 8:03:11 GMT -6
The reason we misunderstand one another is our terminology. When I say heart I meant the center...the very core, like the heart of a tree. The heart of the subject. Which is the Human Spirit.
I talk this way all the time and have for years, that's why I'm largely misunderstood I guess. Sorry.
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Post by samsara15 on May 12, 2014 8:15:10 GMT -6
No problem, sydney, communication between people is never easy, nor friction free. We struggle along, as best we can, and hope others will cut us a little slack when we err. After all, even husbands and wives struggle to communicate with each other.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 9:29:42 GMT -6
No problem, sydney, communication between people is never easy, nor friction free. We struggle along, as best we can, and hope others will cut us a little slack when we err. After all, even husbands and wives struggle to communicate with each other. No problemo Senor Sam. As you know I have been called a sanctimonious Blank, a Liar and a fool. Miscommunication was the main culprit. I mistakenly assume people know what I'm talking about but they don't.
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Post by tindalus on May 12, 2014 13:35:28 GMT -6
God can not be understood with your mind, can't be done. You understand God with your heart. Feelings fool people all the time. Being ephoric doesn't mean it is god.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 13:37:48 GMT -6
God can not be understood with your mind, can't be done. You understand God with your heart. Feelings fool people all the time. Being ephoric doesn't mean it is god. Then you put man in the same category as an animal which he is not. Is anyone else experencing a slow internet today? It's either the internet or this site.
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Post by tindalus on May 12, 2014 14:08:11 GMT -6
Feelings fool people all the time. Being ephoric doesn't mean it is god. Then you put man in the same category as an animal which he is not. Is anyone else experencing a slow internet today? It's either the internet or this site. Too abstract for me Sam. But I thought one of your responses was quite interesting. Lot of people claim their religion is true. Some have claimed they had a miracle or they had a near death experience (thinking of the movie that is out recently) or some other claim that proves to them that their religion is correct. There are so many issues about that, it still amazes me the nonsensical thinking that I hear from religionists. For example, miracles are common in all religions. The so called near death experience, matches whatever belief system that the one having it believes. All in all, it only shows that religion is determined not as a truth, but as a mind perception. So what is "knowing". Is it the heart as Sydney says? Sydney isn't really clear about it other than he believes it to the core of his being. But that doesn't mean anything. Buddhists would say the same. So do Muslims, so do those that believed in the pagan gods of old. What makes anyone of them right? Nothing. So the truth isn't in the "core" or the "heart". It is why it so easily fools people. After all, if you been told to believe something, is it a surprise that one believes it to the "core" of themselves? Not really. Ultimately, the problem with religion isn't just about what they believe as much as how they use their religion to cause so much hate in the world, being divisive and how they use it to harm others. I often use christianity as the example as not only was I also raised as a christian, but also because that is the most common religion in the US. I rejected it because it was very clear that it was nonsense. That doesn't mean I reject the concept of a "god", just means I reject the concept that christians have. But christians have never been a good example of the teachings of Jesus, so who knows, maybe I would change my mind if they actually tried to live as he did in his time.
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Post by tindalus on May 12, 2014 14:09:44 GMT -6
Feelings fool people all the time. Being ephoric doesn't mean it is god. Then you put man in the same category as an animal which he is not. Is anyone else experencing a slow internet today? It's either the internet or this site. Man is an animal. And yes, internet does seem to be having problems, or this website is.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2014 14:48:06 GMT -6
It's this site, I tried to get on a few minutes ago and I couldn't.
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