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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 10:52:26 GMT -6
Theres nothing hard about what I'm saying. Think on what I'm saying for a second. The still small voice I refer to we all have or most of us do. The still small voice is of the spirit, people that are non-religious might refer to it as their conscience. Like I said if it is ignored long enough big problems arise. People like Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy ....Bless their little murdering hearts had ignored the voice so long it stopped talking to them. Gary Ridgeway the Green River killer killed 50-60 women. I saw an interview he did and they ask him, wasn't killing all those women hard on him, he responded by saying, yeah getting rid of all those damn bodies was harder then you might think. He just didn't understand....the voice had left him. He was basically an animal. Adolf Hitler in 6 years was responsible for the deaths of 14 million people and he's a prime example of someone that could not hear the still small voice. Adolf Hitler had his own small voice. He let it take over him, but he should not have listened to it. Agreed, he listened to the voice of the flesh.
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Post by tindalus on Jun 6, 2014 16:01:25 GMT -6
And you?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 18:03:20 GMT -6
The Spirit of God. You may ask how can you tell the difference? Easy! If it's God's voice it will always line up with the word of God.
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Post by tindalus on Jun 6, 2014 21:27:47 GMT -6
And you think your voice in your head lines up with god? Interesting, but the voices in the head of christians'...are clearly not of god.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 2:52:16 GMT -6
And you think your voice in your head lines up with god? Interesting, but the voices in the head of christians'...are clearly not of god. Of course, we live in a fallen state. Christians or who ever, no one's perfect.
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Post by tindalus on Jun 7, 2014 9:29:53 GMT -6
But Jesus said you could do the same things he did and greater?
But I suspect the hindu's and the buddhists, and the muslim's and the pagan's voice is just as valid as your voice.
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Post by rdlb on Jun 7, 2014 9:46:14 GMT -6
That is exactly my point. All religionists hear are their own ego's. they interpret the voice to be god. their god. and they hear t his invoice...and think it might be Jesus...or whatever. Doesn't matter. But what happens, is they were told to believe something. They interpret their experience based on their belief. But it doesn't mean they are right. But is the tree that religionist feed from good or evil Christians for example, their tree is rotten. They discriminate. They hate. they encourage violence. In other words their fruit is rotten. As pretty much all religions are. their basic view may be right, but their take of their views. isn't good. Interesting that the choice of the word "tree" was used here. Metaphorically referenced to Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Therein lies the choice put before "any" Christian. Discrimination, hatred, violence and the production of rotten fruit. Those who believe in a fallen man must also understand that to get back to the garden and the "tree of Life" there is a flaming sword guarding the way. Another metaphor is guarding "the way". The lusts of the flesh lived life is this flaming sword, one who continues to live in and from this directed life will never see the tree of life. They only see and understand the lusts of the flesh or the "flaming sword". Once those lusts of the unregenerate individual have fallen away through the process of regeneration, (those who have truly followed the son of man), a more perfect judgment of a lifestyle occurs. Their tree branches begin to produce acceptable fruit, fruits of the spirit and not rotten fruit. One "must" abide in Him for without Him, one can do NO THING, other than produce rotten fruit. As to hearing their own egos and being told to believe? I can only answer for myself. No one told me first what to believe, I was an Atheist condemning Christians and other religionists for being stupid and ignorant of my truth, no God(s) only man's imaginations and superstitions. Then, like the Apostle Paul, I was made aware directly by God Himself and through no other of my blindness and persecution of His Church. I began to study His Word and not rely on the studies of the many, many Christian belief systems available. Through that study and application of what was revealed in me, I changed. Like Jesus indicated of Himself, I know "from" where I have been and now "of" where I am going. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2014 9:48:34 GMT -6
Suspect all you want but you're wrong.
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Post by samsara15 on Jun 7, 2014 10:37:27 GMT -6
That is exactly my point. All religionists hear are their own ego's. they interpret the voice to be god. their god. and they hear t his invoice...and think it might be Jesus...or whatever. Doesn't matter. But what happens, is they were told to believe something. They interpret their experience based on their belief. But it doesn't mean they are right. But is the tree that religionist feed from good or evil Christians for example, their tree is rotten. They discriminate. They hate. they encourage violence. In other words their fruit is rotten. As pretty much all religions are. their basic view may be right, but their take of their views. isn't good. Interesting that the choice of the word "tree" was used here. Metaphorically referenced to Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Therein lies the choice put before "any" Christian. Discrimination, hatred, violence and the production of rotten fruit. Those who believe in a fallen man must also understand that to get back to the garden and the "tree of Life" there is a flaming sword guarding the way. Another metaphor is guarding "the way". The lusts of the flesh lived life is this flaming sword, one who continues to live in and from this directed life will never see the tree of life. They only see and understand the lusts of the flesh or the "flaming sword". Once those lusts of the unregenerate individual have fallen away through the process of regeneration, (those who have truly followed the son of man), a more perfect judgment of a lifestyle occurs. Their tree branches begin to produce acceptable fruit, fruits of the spirit and not rotten fruit. One "must" abide in Him for without Him, one can do NO THING, other than produce rotten fruit. As to hearing their own egos and being told to believe? I can only answer for myself. No one told me first what to believe, I was an Atheist condemning Christians and other religionists for being stupid and ignorant of my truth, no God(s) only man's imaginations and superstitions. Then, like the Apostle Paul, I was made aware directly by God Himself and through no other of my blindness and persecution of His Church. I began to study His Word and not rely on the studies of the many, many Christian belief systems available. Through that study and application of what was revealed in me, I changed. Like Jesus indicated of Himself, I know "from" where I have been and now "of" where I am going. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ. but most people, of any and all beliefs, think their belief is valid, and that all the other beliefs are garbage.
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Post by rdlb on Jun 7, 2014 11:51:57 GMT -6
Interesting that the choice of the word "tree" was used here. Metaphorically referenced to Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Therein lies the choice put before "any" Christian. Discrimination, hatred, violence and the production of rotten fruit. Those who believe in a fallen man must also understand that to get back to the garden and the "tree of Life" there is a flaming sword guarding the way. Another metaphor is guarding "the way". The lusts of the flesh lived life is this flaming sword, one who continues to live in and from this directed life will never see the tree of life. They only see and understand the lusts of the flesh or the "flaming sword". Once those lusts of the unregenerate individual have fallen away through the process of regeneration, (those who have truly followed the son of man), a more perfect judgment of a lifestyle occurs. Their tree branches begin to produce acceptable fruit, fruits of the spirit and not rotten fruit. One "must" abide in Him for without Him, one can do NO THING, other than produce rotten fruit. As to hearing their own egos and being told to believe? I can only answer for myself. No one told me first what to believe, I was an Atheist condemning Christians and other religionists for being stupid and ignorant of my truth, no God(s) only man's imaginations and superstitions. Then, like the Apostle Paul, I was made aware directly by God Himself and through no other of my blindness and persecution of His Church. I began to study His Word and not rely on the studies of the many, many Christian belief systems available. Through that study and application of what was revealed in me, I changed. Like Jesus indicated of Himself, I know "from" where I have been and now "of" where I am going. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ. but most people, of any and all beliefs, think their belief is valid, and that all the other beliefs are garbage. True, in all of my years of religious studies very few have universal acceptance of other's belief system, all or even in part. Shall I presume guilt of some sin? What is sin? What is that individual's heart (will, intentions or desires)? I am not in a very good position to clearly observe.
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Post by samsara15 on Jun 7, 2014 15:05:01 GMT -6
Nor am I in any position to claim to be a clear observer. I am quite certain I make the same errors. To do so is a basic flaw of human nature.
What we can do is to realize how the limits of our faith, knowledge, and opinions bind, and blind us.
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Post by tindalus on Jun 7, 2014 21:56:45 GMT -6
Which is one of the reasons that christianity doesn't show they are worth calling a "true" religion.
And no, buddhists, or any other religion is just as good and as true as christianity.
The tree I refer to is the one that spoke of how one can tell if something is good. It was pointed out in the bible that if the fruit was rotten then the tree was also. Christianity has not shown to have good fruit. All we have to do to know that is recognize all the hate they keep spreading. They call it love, but it isn't. It isn't possible to love while condemning someone or something else.
People in all religions do the best they can, but they are only the blind leading the blind.
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Post by samsara15 on Jun 8, 2014 3:45:46 GMT -6
The strongest argument in favor of the existence of some sort of God, IMO, is how the human race seems to be the top of the food chain on Earth. Our dominating presence as the top predator. True, we don't and can't dominate protists, fungi, and plants, but we are the top of the heap, and until some other from of life are discovered elsewhere, on some other planet, the only intelligent species. Dolphins may be as smart as us, but they can't use tools as well as us, don't build things, and don't have the ability to build on their past, due to their lack of written records.
What weakens that argument that human beings are something special, IMO, is the insistence of theists that we live in a dualistic world, with a non-physical soul in addition to our bodies. That, plus the negative aspects of religion that Tindalus refers to above, the emphasis that most religions place on sin, an afterlife, and divine punishment.
The kind of God that this evidence (humans as top species, no human non-physical soul, no afterlife) allows me to believe could conceivably exist would be happy enough to have seen our species exist ONCE, even if we do soon become extinct due to our poor use of our resources and poor judgment. But that is purely speculation on my part.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2014 4:39:54 GMT -6
Which is one of the reasons that christianity doesn't show they are worth calling a "true" religion. And no, buddhists, or any other religion is just as good and as true as christianity. The tree I refer to is the one that spoke of how one can tell if something is good. It was pointed out in the bible that if the fruit was rotten then the tree was also. Christianity has not shown to have good fruit. All we have to do to know that is recognize all the hate they keep spreading. They call it love, but it isn't. It isn't possible to love while condemning someone or something else. People in all religions do the best they can, but they are only the blind leading the blind. You seem to have a special hatred for Christianity and Christians. Bare your soul and tell us what's eating at you.
Anyone can claim to be anything and it don't mean much. The Bible say you shall know them by their fruits.
Lots of people claim to be Christians but they sure don't live it.
A man I once worked with died and in his obit it described his love for the Lord. I had to read it again, was this the same man I worked with? He never once mentioned God, He cursed and smoked, he was no different than anyone else there.
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Post by samsara15 on Jun 8, 2014 5:50:23 GMT -6
Like most other human belief systems, Christianity has a bad record, and has never treated non-Christians very well. Ask the Jews, for example, who have been expelled from many nations over the centuries, about how it is to be a Jew in a Christian nation. Of course, that is also true of many other religions - it is not pleasant to be a non-Muslim in any Muslim nation, for example, and never has been. Tindulas has never made any claims to be a Christian, so I';m not sure what issues that last paragraph was meant to address.
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