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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 10:50:57 GMT -6
When god according to christians kill millions (the story of the flood) because he is angry, he isn't a good god. Now, I do agree with you that evil things do occur and that has nothing to do with god as it has to do with how people treat each other, but the bible is filled with evil acts by god. Also, a god that condemns good people to hell just because they don't worship him? Pretty egotistical in my opinion. Heaven and hell doesn't exist. That I know. Your getting God confused with Satan. The Bible says the thief cometh not but for to steal,and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 12:11:01 GMT -6
No, it isn't an opinion. I know. It is your opinion. You don't know .conclusively. It is your opinion, your presumption. I have the assurance from God, and God doesn't break promises. You will know soon enough, but for now, while you dwell among the living, it's an opinion, your opinion to which you are entitled, but an opinion just the same. But don't tell others that is the opinion and the path they should follow. It' won't work.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 12:23:03 GMT -6
No, it isn't an opinion. I know. Well since you are so adamant that ' you know', why don't you tell us how you know.? Don't rely on 'feelings' or 'hunches', something that proves that you know and how you came by that info.
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Post by tindalus on Jun 5, 2014 13:11:37 GMT -6
When god according to christians kill millions (the story of the flood) because he is angry, he isn't a good god. Now, I do agree with you that evil things do occur and that has nothing to do with god as it has to do with how people treat each other, but the bible is filled with evil acts by god. Also, a god that condemns good people to hell just because they don't worship him? Pretty egotistical in my opinion. Heaven and hell doesn't exist. That I know. Your getting God confused with Satan. The Bible says the thief cometh not but for to steal,and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I am not confused. Just christians always excuses god because we "can't possibly understand".
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Post by tindalus on Jun 5, 2014 13:26:15 GMT -6
No, it isn't an opinion. I know. Well since you are so adamant that ' you know', why don't you tell us how you know.? Don't rely on 'feelings' or 'hunches', something that proves that you know and how you came by that info. I am not interested in trying to prove anything to you. The reality is that no matter what I say or what do to prove something, it won't matter. You have decided to believe what you believe and it would be a waste of time trying. Perfect example. We know that man is the cause of today's global warming. We also know the earth is around 4 billion years or so. Yet the facts don't matter to religionists who believe in creation or the idea of an earth that can't be older than 6,000 years. It's like talking to flat earthers. No amount of proof is good enough. More importantly, how could I prove anything to you? Your mind, and that goes for everyone, think differently, see the world differently, and what is good enough for me, will not be good enough for you. You have to prove it to yourself first. ----------------------------------------------------- I have been thinking for awhile on how I want to discuss what we experience and the relative merits of religion in general, I have even thought about starting a thread on the subject. I find people are most fascinating and what I find interesting is more about how people think and how they allow their thinking to shape their experiences. For example, I have heard so often how Christians claim a miracle has occurred. How that means that his and his only god is the true god. I have also heard the same thing from Muslims, buddhists, and pagans. Everyone religion that has ever existed has these so called miracles and yet each one of them claim that the other religion's experience just means it is the devils work, while their own miracle is god's. This kind of awareness shows to me what value any particular religion has which is only what that individual needs. Not the "truth" but an individual's truth. This one question itself can be pretty interesting when one discusses the idea of one truth or multiple truths. Most people will claim there can only be one truth. I would tend to argue that there are many truths. What is truth to you, is not truth for me. And that's because we both need different things. You need to believe as a christian believes. Me, I am more an esoteric type of person who sees the world more impersonally.
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Post by samsara15 on Jun 5, 2014 17:44:04 GMT -6
The only one decieved is the non-believer who trusts in their own ability. I've seen it happen. I've known people for years who never mentioned God or anything about him until something dangerous comes into their life (cancer). Then I hear the word prayer, prayer list and God mentioned. To me it's extremely brutish to feel you have all the answers and dismiss God. Why put yourself in that position? Who put you in the position to say who is deceived? Perhaps that is beyond our knowledge.
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Post by samsara15 on Jun 5, 2014 17:55:17 GMT -6
No, it isn't an opinion. I know. It is your opinion. You don't know .conclusively. It is your opinion, your presumption. I have the assurance from God, and God doesn't break promises. You will know soon enough, but for now, while you dwell among the living, it's an opinion, your opinion to which you are entitled, but an opinion just the same. But don't tell others that is the opinion and the path they should follow. It' won't work. How do you know you have the assurance of God? How do you know it is not your own feelings and opinions speaking? Can you, or anyone else, know anything? We are forced to use our knowledge and our feelings to make what we feel is the best guess at what is true, but it is still only a guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 18:25:38 GMT -6
If you don't know how I have God's assurance, you wouldn't understand anyway. He offered, I accepted and that's pretty much the way it is.
I'm happy, you're happy.so be it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 19:18:03 GMT -6
The only one decieved is the non-believer who trusts in their own ability. I've seen it happen. I've known people for years who never mentioned God or anything about him until something dangerous comes into their life (cancer). Then I hear the word prayer, prayer list and God mentioned. To me it's extremely brutish to feel you have all the answers and dismiss God. Why put yourself in that position? Who put you in the position to say who is deceived? Perhaps that is beyond our knowledge. It's a self-appointed position. In all seriousness God speaks to all people. It's the still small voice referred to in the Bible. Ignore that still small voice long enough and it gets weaker and weaker until you no longer hear it.....then you're in trouble. It's a long trip back.
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Post by samsara15 on Jun 5, 2014 20:00:33 GMT -6
A voice that small can equally well be attributed to self-justification and imagination.
Other people hear other voices. Muslims, for example. But many others, too. Mormons, Hindus, Sikhs, and Buddhists, for other examples. In the face of competing claims, how can any of us claim that what we hear is more true than what they hear? In the face of so many competing claims, isn't it at least a possibility that all religions are wrong?
I can accept the possible value of Pascal's Wager, but you seem to be advocating a much stronger claim than Pascal ever made.
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Post by samsara15 on Jun 5, 2014 20:16:41 GMT -6
and if we concede the value of Pascal's Wager, then what can anyone find to criticize about the ancient Roman Pantheon? Then we have almost returned to polytheistic paganism.
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Post by tindalus on Jun 5, 2014 22:14:04 GMT -6
That is exactly my point. All religionists hear are their own ego's. they interpret the voice to be god. their god. and they hear t his invoice...and think it might be Jesus...or whatever. Doesn't matter. But what happens, is they were told to believe something. They interpret their experience based on their belief.
But it doesn't mean they are right.
But is the tree that religionist feed from good or evil
Christians for example, their tree is rotten. They discriminate. They hate. they encourage violence. In other words their fruit is rotten. As pretty much all religions are.
their basic view may be right, but their take of their views. isn't good.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 2:59:46 GMT -6
Theres nothing hard about what I'm saying. Think on what I'm saying for a second. The still small voice I refer to we all have or most of us do. The still small voice is of the spirit, people that are non-religious might refer to it as their conscience. Like I said if it is ignored long enough big problems arise. People like Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy ....Bless their little murdering hearts had ignored the voice so long it stopped talking to them. Gary Ridgeway the Green River killer killed 50-60 women. I saw an interview he did and they ask him, wasn't killing all those women hard on him, he responded by saying, yeah getting rid of all those damn bodies was harder then you might think. He just didn't understand....the voice had left him. He was basically an animal.
Adolf Hitler in 6 years was responsible for the deaths of 14 million people and he's a prime example of someone that could not hear the still small voice.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 3:27:00 GMT -6
I have preached this, taught this and lived this for so long it's second nature to me. I fail sometimes to realize how crazy and difficult this is to understand if you're not well-versed on matters like this.
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Post by samsara15 on Jun 6, 2014 10:45:10 GMT -6
Theres nothing hard about what I'm saying. Think on what I'm saying for a second. The still small voice I refer to we all have or most of us do. The still small voice is of the spirit, people that are non-religious might refer to it as their conscience. Like I said if it is ignored long enough big problems arise. People like Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy ....Bless their little murdering hearts had ignored the voice so long it stopped talking to them. Gary Ridgeway the Green River killer killed 50-60 women. I saw an interview he did and they ask him, wasn't killing all those women hard on him, he responded by saying, yeah getting rid of all those damn bodies was harder then you might think. He just didn't understand....the voice had left him. He was basically an animal. Adolf Hitler in 6 years was responsible for the deaths of 14 million people and he's a prime example of someone that could not hear the still small voice. Adolf Hitler had his own small voice. He let it take over him, but he should not have listened to it.
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