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Post by rdlb on Jun 28, 2015 13:20:35 GMT -6
If I may answer the question? Peter representing a type and shadow of our faith, a faith that can be of the flesh or of the spirit.
Consider tha Peter recognized Who Jesus was in comparison to what men thought of Jesus. Then Peter was called "satan" because he cherished the same views that were of man. Yes Peter denied Jesus three times. Yet to answer this question of God reconciling Peter's seeming dilemma we look to another set of scriptures.
Luk 22:31-32 ¶ And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Peter (Simon) needed to be converted, but, converted in what manner? Notice the wording in the following from the Book of John:
John 21:14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest (ἀγαπάω agapaō) thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love (φιλέω phileō) thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest (ἀγαπάω agapaō) thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love (φιλέω phileō) thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest (φιλέω phileō) thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest (φιλέω phileō) thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love (φιλέω phileō) thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not.
This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
Peter had to recognize the difference in to love dearly or to treat affectionately. A Godly love or a friendship love. A step in the right direction. Yet the totality of Peter's conversion came at Pentecost.
Act 2:1
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (condition)
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:16-17 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (promise)
Act 2:14 ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: (finally action)
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Post by matador on Jul 19, 2015 23:31:01 GMT -6
I wish you would have posted his web site.
I do understand where Atheists come from and why even the most devout Christian has become and Atheist. But threatening suicide is not limited to one sector, even Christians have threatened suicide and while I don't currently have the numbers, Christians commit suicide more than any other religion, other than the suicide bombers.
A person who loses a belief in God will happen more often than one thinks.
I am a man of science and I have had a lot of questions, but I still go to Church, I still pray, and I do believe that so do a great majority of scientists. Questioning does not make a person bad and I do think that we were given a brain to use, just that some don't.
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Post by carpathianpeasant on Jul 26, 2015 11:44:51 GMT -6
I wish you would have posted his web site. I do understand where Atheists come from and why even the most devout Christian has become and Atheist. But threatening suicide is not limited to one sector, even Christians have threatened suicide and while I don't currently have the numbers, Christians commit suicide more than any other religion, other than the suicide bombers. A person who loses a belief in God will happen more often than one thinks. I am a man of science and I have had a lot of questions, but I still go to Church, I still pray, and I do believe that so do a great majority of scientists. Questioning does not make a person bad and I do think that we were given a brain to use, just that some don't.
Perhaps one defining element is whether one accepts the notion of free will. If everything is reducible to scientific action/reaction then we are nothing but robots.
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Post by matador on Jul 26, 2015 12:22:55 GMT -6
I wish you would have posted his web site. I do understand where Atheists come from and why even the most devout Christian has become and Atheist. But threatening suicide is not limited to one sector, even Christians have threatened suicide and while I don't currently have the numbers, Christians commit suicide more than any other religion, other than the suicide bombers. A person who loses a belief in God will happen more often than one thinks. I am a man of science and I have had a lot of questions, but I still go to Church, I still pray, and I do believe that so do a great majority of scientists. Questioning does not make a person bad and I do think that we were given a brain to use, just that some don't.
Perhaps one defining element is whether one accepts the notion of free will. If everything is reducible to scientific action/reaction then we are nothing but robots.
I don't think that we are robots, but as we age and explore we can learn. Learning is not bad and learning history along with the Bible is good. Asking questions is not bad and I learned that in school and schooling for me was in a Catholic school. Many scientists came out of the Catholic church, many of our discoveries were because of the Catholic faith, and science and religion can co-exist along side each other.
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Post by veggienut on Aug 13, 2015 19:45:21 GMT -6
I have a friend who is an atheist. I knew he was against faith for many of reasons he told me about along with how he grew up with little to none. He does not like me bringing up faith, but now he's ill (again) and he called me long distance to talk and for comfort. I thought my neighbor could give him some insight on his condition and things I didn't know about. She asked him "is it okay if I pray for you?" He agreed and later told me it is absurd. It is difficult to believe how this guy really is who've I've known for a long time. He told me he listens to podcasts as well as reads about atheism. Seems like he is not open to changing his mind due to the fact of the others he associates with who think like him. He's different even when I met him. Seems like if one is sick, their minds need some hope for change and help and would give prayer a chance, but not him. Anyways, he is not terminally ill just ill for other reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 3:27:19 GMT -6
There are people that reject the still small voice so often they no longer hear his voice.
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Post by lowell on Aug 14, 2015 3:54:53 GMT -6
Gods exist, but they are not as powerful or as wise, or as aware as they pretend to be. They seek adulation because they were once selfish common mortals who sought after enlightenment only for themselves. As a result they have the fate to provide the rest of the entities of the universe with the basic forces that sustain our temporary existences. Scholars, sages, saints (bodhisattvas), and Buddhas are superior to gods. Scholars are superior to gods because their understanding of the forces and how those forces work, is increasing, and they are not selfish and they do not typically seek adulation. Sages are superior because they understand key principles of creation and are capable of inventing and composing in such a way that they can relieve the suffering of living beings and provide happiness. Saints are superior because they can elevate the life condition of others and cause them to seek the most profound awareness and they vow to save innumerable entities. Buddhas are superior to gods because they are becoming aware of the never before realized law and they dwell in the realm of the boundless true phenomena. Men of science are scholars and sages, and though they have not achieved the ultimate freedom, they are urged from within and induced from without to seek it. When man did not understand the force of lightning there was a god for that, and of course the thunder. Now we harness electricity and employ sound to map the depths of the ocean. There are still some mysteries and there will always be more to learn. The ultimate reality is that profound. It cannot be completely known. It can be discovered and awakened to, and when that happens, the mystery of birth and death is understood. From a Christian's point of view, this is atheism. From an atheist's point of view, this is not atheism. It is the truth, neither atheism, nor not-atheism.
veggienut, your friend's illness can be cured if that friend only chants Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.
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Post by veggienut on Aug 14, 2015 9:17:33 GMT -6
Sounds like your one of them Lowell, are you? I don't think will chant anything. He won't or will not listen about a friend who had cancer and was cured thru prayer. Her doctors are amazed it disappeared! What is this chant from?
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Post by lowell on Aug 14, 2015 17:10:23 GMT -6
It is from the title of the Lotus Sutra (a combination of Sanskrit and Chinese). The Lotus Sutra is the principal teaching revered by Tibetan buddhists. They attach the most importance to Chapter 25 which is about Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara. They say that their chant was given to them by Avalokitesvara. Tibetan buddhists chant "Om Mani Padme Hum" This is a six syllable chant. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is also a six syllable chant. Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo means Wonderful Law of the Lotus Flower Teaching Nam is a Sanskrit word that means "Hail" or "Praise". It is common for people in India to bow to people and place their palms together saying Namaste, which means Praise to you.
I have faith in something that is termed to be a Law. It is like the law of karma, and the law of life and death. It has human aspects but the Law itself is supreme to those aspects. Through accomplishing harmony with the Law, a human's understanding can transcend life and death. Even deep rooted negative karma can be eradicated and beneficial karma can be created and deepened.
This fundamental Law (or phenomena) is the source of all other laws (phenomena) and they return to it.
Science has been seeking this phenomena. They are close to understanding it with "M theory". "M theory" or membrane theory, has been described as the "theory of everything", the "unified field theory" that Einstein wanted to discover. It is the completion of the "string theories". String theory says that atoms are linked together by strings that are normally imperceptible. It says that the vibration of the string at different points with different intensities and characteristics is observed by us as the different atomic particles (where the strings vibrate just so). Membrane theory expands from strings to membranes that are normally imperceptible with points in the membranes where it vibrates just so and we perceive particles. This explains phenomena on the macro and the micro scales of existence that previously appeared to operate in quite different ways, and shows both the macro and the micro phenomena are following the same rules. It explains such things as (spooky action at a distance).
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Post by carpathianpeasant on Aug 15, 2015 1:35:08 GMT -6
It is from the title of the Lotus Sutra (a combination of Sanskrit and Chinese). The Lotus Sutra is the principal teaching revered by Tibetan buddhists. They attach the most importance to Chapter 25 which is about Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara. They say that their chant was given to them by Avalokitesvara. Tibetan buddhists chant "Om Mani Padme Hum" This is a six syllable chant. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is also a six syllable chant. Myo-Ho-Ren-Ge-Kyo means Wonderful Law of the Lotus Flower Teaching Nam is a Sanskrit word that means "Hail" or "Praise". It is common for people in India to bow to people and place their palms together saying Namaste, which means Praise to you. I have faith in something that is termed to be a Law. It is like the law of karma, and the law of life and death. It has human aspects but the Law itself is supreme to those aspects. Through accomplishing harmony with the Law, a human's understanding can transcend life and death. Even deep rooted negative karma can be eradicated and beneficial karma can be created and deepened. This fundamental Law (or phenomena) is the source of all other laws (phenomena) and they return to it. Science has been seeking this phenomena. They are close to understanding it with "M theory". "M theory" or membrane theory, has been described as the "theory of everything", the "unified field theory" that Einstein wanted to discover. It is the completion of the "string theories". String theory says that atoms are linked together by strings that are normally imperceptible. It says that the vibration of the string at different points with different intensities and characteristics is observed by us as the different atomic particles (where the strings vibrate just so). Membrane theory expands from strings to membranes that are normally imperceptible with points in the membranes where it vibrates just so and we perceive particles. This explains phenomena on the macro and the micro scales of existence that previously appeared to operate in quite different ways, and shows both the macro and the micro phenomena are following the same rules. It explains such things as (spooky action at a distance).
So, I read this one.
How does it relate to Hindu? Taoism or other Chinese thought?
Does the term "Law" relate to the idea of actual existence (i.e. natural law) or actually mean that? What is meant by the notion of lesser laws _"returning"_ to the Law?
Does the "string theory" exclude the notion of magnetic (or maybe electro-magnetic) attraction?
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Post by lowell on Aug 15, 2015 4:11:14 GMT -6
"It was only in the fifteenth year of the Middle Day of the Law that Buddhist sutras were first introduced to China. This was in the year with the cyclical sign hinoto-u, the tenth year of the Yung-p’ing era (c.e. 67) in the reign of Emperor Ming of the Later Han dynasty."
The Lotus Sutra was already well known in Tibet.
Hinduism and Brahmanism are closely related. The Buddha Shakyamuni considered some elements of Brahmanism and Hinduism to be correct enough to not require refutation. He adopted their measures of time.
According to the Brahman calculations of time, we are in the ninth period of decrease in the Kalpa of continuance. This computes to the beginning of this universe as starting about 10 billion years ago. Science estimates that this universe began about 13 billion years ago.
Taoism did not have these concepts of billions of years. Confucianism was mainly rules of conduct and defined relationships between the ruler and the ruled.
Law refers to phenomena. For instance gravity is a phenomena. Magnetism is a phenomena. Electricity is a phenomena. There is a law of gravity, there are laws of magnetism and electricity. The Law is both the phenomena and our understanding of its function and nature.
The law has an appearance, nature, entity, power, influence, inner workings, manifest workings, inner effects, manifest effects and other properties that are consistently found throughout.
The one Law is not born and does not die. It is eternal and infinite. All other phenomena are born from the one Law and upon their death merge back into the one Law.
As to questions about string theory and membrane theory, you will have to wait. I have promised myself to read a book on this by Michio Kaku. Of course, I have to get the book first, before I can read it. So I am now compelled to buy it. I will do that this weekend. Give me a week or two to get some of it read and I may be able to answer your question. My knee jerk reaction is to say that all previously observed forces of electricity and magnetism are explained by and included within string theory and membrane theory. When we look at an electron and a proton, one of the differences is electrical, another is mass. There exist magnetic forces and attraction between them too. Now what makes an electron negative? It is the direction of its spin isn't it? The proton spins in the opposite direction. A positron is the mass and location of an electron but with a positive charge meaning that it spins in the same direction as a proton and an anti-proton is the mass and location of a proton but with a negative charge meaning that it spins in the same direction as an electron. Now in string theory these are not separate particles, they are sections of strings of energy that are vibrating and moving in specific ways that make them obvious to us and our instruments. So that section of the string where we define an electron, is a bit of energy that is spinning and vibrating in just such a way that we define it as an electron. The fact that electrical phenomena and magnetic phenomena in the sub-atomic realm seemed to be so different from electrical phenomena and magnetic phenomena in the galactic realm was and is one of the difficulties of particle theory. Wikipedia says about the Unified Field Theory: The term was coined by Einstein, who attempted to unify the general theory of relativity with electromagnetism. He could not do it.
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Post by carpathianpeasant on Aug 15, 2015 16:06:40 GMT -6
"It was only in the fifteenth year of the Middle Day of the Law that Buddhist sutras were first introduced to China. This was in the year with the cyclical sign hinoto-u, the tenth year of the Yung-p’ing era (c.e. 67) in the reign of Emperor Ming of the Later Han dynasty." The Lotus Sutra was already well known in Tibet. Hinduism and Brahmanism are closely related. The Buddha Shakyamuni considered some elements of Brahmanism and Hinduism to be correct enough to not require refutation. He adopted their measures of time. According to the Brahman calculations of time, we are in the ninth period of decrease in the Kalpa of continuance. This computes to the beginning of this universe as starting about 10 billion years ago. Science estimates that this universe began about 13 billion years ago. Taoism did not have these concepts of billions of years. Confucianism was mainly rules of conduct and defined relationships between the ruler and the ruled. Law refers to phenomena. For instance gravity is a phenomena. Magnetism is a phenomena. Electricity is a phenomena. There is a law of gravity, there are laws of magnetism and electricity. The Law is both the phenomena and our understanding of its function and nature. The law has an appearance, nature, entity, power, influence, inner workings, manifest workings, inner effects, manifest effects and other properties that are consistently found throughout. The one Law is not born and does not die. It is eternal and infinite. All other phenomena are born from the one Law and upon their death merge back into the one Law. As to questions about string theory and membrane theory, you will have to wait. I have promised myself to read a book on this by Michio Kaku. Of course, I have to get the book first, before I can read it. So I am now compelled to buy it. I will do that this weekend. Give me a week or two to get some of it read and I may be able to answer your question. My knee jerk reaction is to say that all previously observed forces of electricity and magnetism are explained by and included within string theory and membrane theory. When we look at an electron and a proton, one of the differences is electrical, another is mass. There exist magnetic forces and attraction between them too. Now what makes an electron negative? It is the direction of its spin isn't it? The proton spins in the opposite direction. A positron is the mass and location of an electron but with a positive charge meaning that it spins in the same direction as a proton and an anti-proton is the mass and location of a proton but with a negative charge meaning that it spins in the same direction as an electron. Now in string theory these are not separate particles, they are sections of strings of energy that are vibrating and moving in specific ways that make them obvious to us and our instruments. So that section of the string where we define an electron, is a bit of energy that is spinning and vibrating in just such a way that we define it as an electron. The fact that electrical phenomena and magnetic phenomena in the sub-atomic realm seemed to be so different from electrical phenomena and magnetic phenomena in the galactic realm was and is one of the difficulties of particle theory. Wikipedia says about the Unified Field Theory: The term was coined by Einstein, who attempted to unify the general theory of relativity with electromagnetism. He could not do it.
So, okay, "The Law" is essentially existence and a lot more of it can be expected (it's only about "the Middle Day").
And, I can wait until you read the book. My notion has always been that something like H2O has atoms sticking together but they can be forced apart (boil the water) ... but, then, I not only did very poorly in chemistry it scares me.
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Post by lowell on Aug 15, 2015 17:26:32 GMT -6
"Existence" is more than we suppose it to be. Physicists have had to recognize the existence of "dark matter" and "dark energy". They don't know what these are yet, but they comprise about 95% of what is real. So when we use the word "existence", thinking we understand it, we are in disagreement with science. A large part of "dark matter" could be the parts of the strings and membranes that are imperceptible to us and our tools. "Dark energy" could be energy still traveling through the black hole in the 6 dimensional parallel universe that formed our big bang when it first became a black hole in that parallel six dimensional universe. (the big bang here was black hole there) All our reality came through that black hole when it was "feeding" on the matter in that 6 dimensional universe. Now it is no longer feeding, but energy is still being captured and transported into our universe, resulting in the accelerating expansion of our universe. In our own universe, light is of course captured by supermassive black holes that exist at the center of every galaxy. Even those black holes that are not feeding on stars and matter that gets too close, are still capturing light and radiant energy that travels close enough.
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Post by carpathianpeasant on Aug 16, 2015 6:17:20 GMT -6
"Existence" is more than we suppose it to be. Physicists have had to recognize the existence of "dark matter" and "dark energy". They don't know what these are yet, but they comprise about 95% of what is real. So when we use the word "existence", thinking we understand it, we are in disagreement with science. A large part of "dark matter" could be the parts of the strings and membranes that are imperceptible to us and our tools. "Dark energy" could be energy still traveling through the black hole in the 6 dimensional parallel universe that formed our big bang when it first became a black hole in that parallel six dimensional universe. (the big bang here was black hole there) All our reality came through that black hole when it was "feeding" on the matter in that 6 dimensional universe. Now it is no longer feeding, but energy is still being captured and transported into our universe, resulting in the accelerating expansion of our universe. In our own universe, light is of course captured by supermassive black holes that exist at the center of every galaxy. Even those black holes that are not feeding on stars and matter that gets too close, are still capturing light and radiant energy that travels close enough.
By "existence" I mean "that which is" (or, in simplified notion, "the way things are") whether we understand it/them or not makes no difference. Even whether it's material or not makes no difference -- an idea (especially if formulated) is existent.
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Post by lowell on Aug 21, 2015 22:53:25 GMT -6
I have purchased a couple of books by Michio Kaku and I have revisited a series of lectures by Neil DeGrasse Tyson. This has shown me that I was wrong to equate electric charge with the spin of subatomic particles. I am not sure just what structural difference theoreticians use to explain the -1 value of an electron, but it isn't the spin. When I thought about it I realized that the neutron would also spin and yet it has a neutral electric value. The existence of quarks is the accepted concept of how protons differ from neutrons and what happens when protons and neutrons are created and destroyed. There are recognized to be six different types of quarks depending on whether the matter is low energy, medium energy or high energy. In our world the matter is low energy and the two quarks are called up and down quarks. Quarks have fractional electrical values. An up quark has a value of +2/3 and a down quark has a value of -1/3. There again, theoreticians may have some theory about how this happens but everything I have read so far just states these as accepted fact. Protons are made of two Up and one Down quark. The neutron is made of two Down and one Up quark. This is how the proton becomes a +1 and a neutron becomes neutral or zero.
There are considered to be four forces that operate in our universe. There is gravity, the electromagnetic force, the strong force (nuclear binding force that bind protons and neutrons in the nucleus), and the weak force (the force that rules nuclear decay).
Electricity and magnetism were initially thought to be separate forces but were shown to be different aspects of the same force. Scientists near the end of the last century realized that the weak force can be treated as a manifestation of the same force (electro-magnestism). The Nobel Prize in 1979 was awarded to three physicists who showed how to unite the weak and the electro-magnetic forces into one force, called the "electro-weak" force. Similarly, physicists believe that another theory called the grand unified theory may unite the electro-weak force with the strong force.
So they were approaching the vision of Einstein in his quest for the unified field theory.
The elusive element of that theory is gravity. Gravity is different from the other forces that all other attempts except string theory united with the super-gravity theory have failed to be a theory of everything.
Einstein's theory of general relativity works very well for the very large scale of reality. Quantum theory works very well for the very small scale of reality, and both are very usuable theories that yield correct predictions and results. They are separate and distinct theories functioning totally independent of each other.
Super string theory (M-theory) views them as being necessary components and quantum theory and general relativity are keys to making super string theory work. Super string theory goes beyond them with a guantum theory of gravity.
The results are intriguing with the probability of multi-dimensional realities in a multi-verse with infinite numbers of "universes" that are born and die.
In conclusion, the electro-magnetic principles of quantum theory are part and parcel of super string theory. All the particles theorized and proven are perfectly explained through super string theory as predictable vibrations of strings and membranes.
The four forces are united as manifestations of one fundamental force.
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